The fail a save on a 1 item is hurt controversy!

The main reason you don't roll saving throws for every item (even magic item) when you get hit by spells is. WHO really wants to sit roll 100 dice to see what was destroyed and what wasn't after getting hit by a fireball. Couple that with the fact that you get hit with spells every round and your rolling more dice to save equipment, then you'll roll in a career on attack rolls.

The DnD combat system was streamlined for simplicity. Feel free to modify the rules as you see fit. But I don't know many people that want to roll hordes of dice to see if their shoes survive the blast. Realism has a place but not when it affects the fun factor. How fun is it to have all your items destroyed in a single fireball?How real is it that a person actually survives getting struck by a meteor?

If you want a more realistic system, you're modifying the rules as is. There are other systems out there that have a more realistic tone. Of course the more realistic you make it the more narrow your audience becomes. Like I said DnD is a balance between realism and playability.

Delgar
 

log in or register to remove this ad

For the record, I'm fine with disintegrate destroying everything if it kills you, but other spells are more gray.

As I was trying to point out with the hitpoint system if you're going to allow all massive damage to destroy all equipment you could run into problems the other way. That dragon doing 300 points of damage should destroy everything you say - no need for a save. However, if that didn't kill anyone, why didn't it there.

That sounds like a perfectly good houserule - all massive damage that causes death destroys all equipment - but I've had no issues using the existing rules (with a lot of common sense) in 20 years either.

Again, how do YOU know that the sword weilding fighter that was just minced in the blade barrier didn't have the sword thrown from his hands?

IceBear
 

You draw the line at some random point called 'fun'. If fun to you is destroying gear with high power spells, hurrah for you. If fun to you is cartoonish 'lots of damage just blows you high in the air', hurrah for you. Most of all, if you find the rules as written entertaining, go for it.

If you're the sort of person for whom a lack of realism causes physical illness, D&D quite possibly shouldn't be your primary choice of RPG.

That said, how about the following rules, which I just made up off the top of my head (which means they need some serious playtesting):

1. AC bonuses from armour are, in fact, cover bonuses. Armour, being treated like cover, is therefore hit and potentially damaged by any attack which rolls between the characters AC with the armour, and his AC without. The character may choose whether his armour or shield is hit by an individual attack. The armour or shield takes the damage instead of the character

2. Armour and this rule apply to touch-attack spells too.

3. Armour and shields give 50% of their value as a cover bonus to reflex saves. Again, if a reflex save succeeds due to armour or shield, the armour takes the damage instead of the character and remaining damage penetrates.

In all cases, if the spell or attack destroys the item with damage left over, that damage carries through to the character beyond, or in the case of a character with a shield, the armour beyond, then the character.

Effects: Heavy armour becomes more desireable, and so does the use of a shield, because it's durability and also because it actually helps against reflex-save spells (something I always thought it should do). Light armour becomes a bit crap really, but people are always complaining it's too good anyway, and the fact that light-armour-wearers typically have a better dex will stop them from going through much armour. Spells which cause instant death (or almost instant death) with a touch attack become really crappy (because they're unable to kill the armour - I think this is a good thing(TM)) while spells which deal damage with a ranged touch attack are not too bad (because they can destroy the armour). In all cases, characters are going to go through much more armour and shields. Also, raw plusses on weapons become a bit more important because they allow the weapon to destroy magical armour and potentially hit the man inside.
 

JLXC said:
Icebear. Like I said... I never played that way... not in 20+ years.. net even as a kid.

Disintegrate has always been the "Bang you're Dead" spell. In every novel I have ever read, and all the FR Novels, when someone is disintegrated they and everything on them go POOF. If you need info or a piece of something on them then disintegrate is not the way to go. Until now. I had no idea that people were using that rule to justify such things. I admit that.

Even in Game terms there have been times when the it was said "The dragon only breathes as a last resort because it wants treasure."

Why would the dragon bother in a world where only when you roll a 1 on a save can your equipment ever get damaged?

Wow.:eek:

*shrug* It's pretty clear from the rules that that is the way it works. I'm astonished that you had such a hard time reading them properly.

I'm even more astonished that you want to use the FR novels as examples of how the game mechanics should work. I had no idea that some people actually took those works of fiction as instructional guides for how the 3rd edition ruleset worked. Wow.

And in all the time I've played D&D (1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition), I've never seen a dragons hesitate to breathe on their opponents in the first round or two of combat. Any treasure they are interested in will generally survive the blast.
 

I had a PC say the same thing. He said that his Fireballs should destroy equipment. He was fighting kobolds, so he didn't expect any good treasure.

Next encounter - kobold spellcasters. Fireball, fireball, fireball, etc etc Fireball again. I told him he lost all his clothes, all his magic equipment, and wouldn't be able to fight unless he took a feat called Naked Fighting. Oh yeah, and since he got Initiative and fried one of the wizards, he couldn't use the spellbook.

I would always give magic items a save, and if the person died from being hit by the Fireball/Bolt of Doom/Dragon Slave then they only lose equipment if they roll a "1". The next big bad spell may destroy equipment, but at the very least that equipment gets a save.

It's also very annoying to look up hit point, hardness, elemental resistance, etc of every item on every NPC that gets fried. Remember that DnD is a game, it isn't realistic, magic isn't realistic, FR novels aren't realistic, and your main goal is to have fun.

Enjoy.
 
Last edited:

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Remember that DnD isn't a game...

eek-yellow.gif
It isn't!?!

;)
 

kreynolds said:


eek-yellow.gif
It isn't!?!

;)

Geez... And I thought I had fun all this time *sigh*

:D

Just for the records, disintegrate is 'A thin green ray' that 'springs from your pointing finger, causing the creature OR object it strikes to glow and vanish'.

In this case, it is pretty clear the equipment stays, since the first creature it touches is the poor soul you are trying to disintegrate. It is less clear for cone of disintegration. I'd go by the rules and let the items survive (the munchkin in me is sometimes uncontrollable :) ) if they were attended at the time.

The fireball bugs me a lot though. I just can't imagine a wizard reading a scroll while in a fireball get through it with the scroll held before him, unscathed.

And I do remember that line about Dragon restraining from breathing to keep the treasures. Red box? Dragon magazine?
 

disinigrate I'v never palyed as the equipment surviving, and I hope i never will. For me the target of disinigrate is the entire creature inclding equipment, heck if the creature was carrying a fallen comrade I'd have them both make saves vs the spell.

Damaging spells I eyeball it, with a general rule that if the target dies, if the damage done to the target past death is enough to destroy the item with or without a save then the tiem is destroyed, otheriwse its fine. In other words if a fighter has 280 ho gets hit for 300 form the dragon fails his save and has no resistences he took 10 points past death. Any items on his person that would be destroyed with 10 points of damage of firey death even with a save for 1/2 are destroyed. In this case paper, and some cloth only. No if that was a wizard with 50hp, and he took 240hp past death then basically everythign is destroyed.
 

Tar-Edhel said:


.

And I do remember that line about Dragon restraining from breathing to keep the treasures. Red box? Dragon magazine?

How about red dragon MM. Not that many people play dragons like they are described. That would usually weaken them to much for the BADD folks.
 

High level characters can go swimming in lava for a few rounds... why can't their equipment survive a fireball?

Like everyone else said - it's about fun factor. Sure, fireballs should incinerate every spellbook and scroll in sight, but that wouldn't be fun. The rolling a '1' rule is there to add a little danger, but not too much. Otherwise all high level characters would be naked and monks would rule the world in their iron fists.

-The Souljourner
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top