The Forge of War

[Glyfair]

I haven't checked the Eberron forums out recently but I can't imagine what they'd be complaining about. I loved Secrets of Sarlona and this one surpasses that one and I don't heap compliments lightly. There are a few Eberron books that weren't all that good but this one wasn't one of them.

The portrayal of the Church of the Silver Flame as a bunch of evil fanatics pretty much. I admit it's inflamed because Wolfgang (one of the authors) has a bad reputation on those boards because of the Clockwork creations series that they tied to Eberron.

The discussion is here.

 

[SecondTime]

The portrayal of the Church of the Silver Flame as a bunch of evil fanatics pretty much. I admit it's inflamed because Wolfgang (one of the authors) has a bad reputation on those boards because of the Clockwork creations series that they tied to Eberron.

The discussion is here.

I think the complaints are pretty moronic. Good people do bad things all the time, especially in the context of war and political upheaval. This is one of the 'shades of grey' that Keith is always talking about; sometimes people do appear to be evil, it doesn't mean they are evil....he seems to want a much more politically correct version of moral ambiguity where there is always a rational, articulate defender of any action ready to make a case for doing such and such; no mistakes are ever made, etc.

 

[Grymar]

I disagree, SecondTime. Burning innocents in the street in a sanctioned purge of the unfaithful isn't a shade of gray. No, it is stark black. A shade of gray is when a follower of the flame is willing to do small evils to help the greater good.

 

[Vurt]

I'm also looking forward to picking this one up soon.

Incidentally, WotC's excerpts are up: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[SecondTime]

I disagree, SecondTime. Burning innocents in the street in a sanctioned purge of the unfaithful isn't a shade of gray. No, it is stark black. A shade of gray is when a follower of the flame is willing to do small evils to help the greater good.

No, that is token ambiguity. Whose to say that in a moment of passion, burning individuals (who are not considered innocents at the time), isn't considered for the greater good? Sometimes lofty ideals combined with fear lead to bad acts. And sometimes people just outright break with their ideals. That is reality, i.e. human nature.

 

[Henry]

Remember also that in the Lycanthropic purges of only a couple hundred years before the Last War, innocent Lycanthropes and Shifters were slain just as well as good ones. The Silver Flame has a demonic Rakshasa entertwined within its core, and occasionally whisperings of doing dark things for the greater good does get out amongst the zealous who don't think about it much. There's more than one reason that all sides wanted to stop the Last War, and I'm willing to bet that Thrane wanted to stop it to regain control of the more "zealous" elements set loose...

 

[Grymar]

Remember also that in the Lycanthropic purges of only a couple hundred years before the Last War, innocent Lycanthropes and Shifters were slain just as well as good ones. The Silver Flame has a demonic Rakshasa entertwined within its core, and occasionally whisperings of doing dark things for the greater good does get out amongst the zealous who don't think about it much. There's more than one reason that all sides wanted to stop the Last War, and I'm willing to bet that Thrane wanted to stop it to regain control of the more "zealous" elements set loose...

Very true, but that was also a deed that needed done. The purge was a response to a near epidemic of lycanthropy which was destroying western Audair. SOMEONE had to step in and it was the Church of the Silver Flame who did....mainly because they defend the weak and the innocent from supernatural evil. That is their primary reason for being. And the peoople they were defending were not followers of the church, they were just people who needed help.

So they marched against the lycanthropes. Yes, innocents were killed during that, but far more innocents were saved because of the actions of the church.

I just see this as a way that the CotSF is losing its place in the world. They are a LG church who is devoted to helping those who can't help themselves, especially against supernatural or extraplanar evils.

That isn 't to say they are without fault, they are. My last campaign had one of the main enemies of the party in the Church. But I feel that while there are some individuals who are misguided or even evil, the Church of the Silver Flame is a good thing. They can be uppity, overly-pious, holier than thou, and a complete pain in the arse, but in the end they are one of the strongest forces against evil that exist in the world.

Having them burning people in the street for being foreigners or non-believers is going too far, IMO.

 

[Shroomy]

I just posted this on the WoTC Boards thread, but I don't see a problem with the passage. 16th Century Europe was convulsed with some really vicious religious warfare, but I don't generally think of the Catholic Church of the resultant Protestant demoninations as evil institutions. A power vacuum, especially in a time of extreme crisis, is often going to be filled by extremist factions, at least temporarily. Lastly, when has such a radical transfer of power from a secular to a religious authority ever gone totally peacefully? What was written about what happened in Thrane is not only plausible, but it would almost be something I would expect.

 

[SecondTime]

I just posted this on the WoTC Boards thread, but I don't see a problem with the passage. 16th Century Europe was convulsed with some really vicious religious warfare, but I don't generally think of the Catholic Church of the resultant Protestant demoninations as evil institutions. A power vacuum, especially in a time of extreme crisis, is often going to be filled by extremist factions, at least temporarily. Lastly, when has such a radical transfer of power from a secular to a religious authority ever gone totally peacefully? What was written about what happened in Thrane is not only plausible, but it would almost be something I would expect.

Bingo. No individual has one identity, and often identities are confused and distorted. The Church could be an overall force for good, but that does not mean its adherents always do good deeds or that the faith wouldn't be used to justify and perpetuate awful acts.

 

[Mercule]

I've been scaling bad my crunchy purchases because I really don't need any more rules (options, whatever) IMC. Still, I really enjoy Eberron and have started picking up Eberron books, just to read, even though I primarily run a homebrew. This one looks like it'll make a good addition to my library.