The funny thing about paladins of wee jas...

[Particle_Man]

Actually, it seems like a pretty interesting character arc to me. It implies a character who begins as a firm believer in one interpretation of his goddess's teachings who is slowly convinced/corrupted by the larger and more influential neutral/evil wing of the faith.

"There are those who find the dark side of the force...unnatural."

Or if you don't like Sithness, just think of the Slytherins School in Harry Potter...they ain't all evil, but all the bad, power hungry folk are Slytherins.

But a duel between a Paladin and Blackguard of Wee Jas would be interesting, as they would both be motivated by lawful alignment and wee jasian religion to follow the exact rules laid down for Duels Between Members of the Wee Jas Faith, Chapter 3, Section ii, Paragraph 13, Sub-Paragraph A.

 

[GeorgeFields]

What does this mean? A paladin of Wee Jas is legal by RAW. Nothing in the paladin's code states that they would find a goddess who determines where people goes when they die (and does not allow the creation of Sueloise undead without permission) abhorrent - the church of Kelemvor in FR has many paladins among its ranks, and he is a LN death deity. The paladins restriction states that they will not knowingly associate with evil characters, which means that they will generally only be found in churches of Wee Jas that are controlled by the LN (the majority) or LG (significant minority) portion of the Jasidan faith.

I just don't see a problem with it. Wee Jas isn't Nerull. She's not an eeeeeeeeeevil goddess who kills with abandon - she's the goddess who makes sure that those who die go where they belong in the afterlife.

Personally, I don't care one way or another. The idea does intrigue me, though.

The thing is:

While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a palading will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code.

Basically, a paladin of Wee Jas won't associate with a percentage of the clergy. Knowing some are evil, would he be CONSTANTLY be using his power to detect evil while at the temple?

If he finds an evil Jasidon cleric, would he smite her in the name of Wee Jas?

Just a point to consider, but a Paladin of Tyranny dedicated to the Ruby Goddess would be da bomb!

 

[Agamon]

I see no problem with this, as long as it's done right. It would be unusual, but the paladin can still do good in the god's name without going against dogma. I have a paladin of St. Cuthbert in my AoW game, which might be easier to picture, as St. Cuthbert was once LG. But really, it's the same thing.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It does boggle me every time people can't or don't wrap their heads around godless clerics or divine magic powered by will and not by some personality. Maybe I've got too much Planescape in me, where simple conviction can empower some supernatural stuff in otherwise non-magical PC's.

To each their own, of course, but calling the idea of godless or divergent clerics "dumb" seems harsh.

The idea of, say, a beneveolent, smiling worshipper of Erythnul who is perfectly calm and rational and just occasionally has to "work out his demons" (being CN) is appealing in the same way that this is, to me.

They're slightly off.

Gothic paladins rock my boxers.

 

[GwydapLlew]

The thing is:

Basically, a paladin of Wee Jas won't associate with a percentage of the clergy. Knowing some are evil, would he be CONSTANTLY be using his power to detect evil while at the temple?

If he finds an evil Jasidon cleric, would he smite her in the name of Wee Jas?

Just a point to consider, but a Paladin of Tyranny dedicated to the Ruby Goddess would be da bomb!

1) Why would he constantly attempt to determine the alignment of his fellow clergy without a reason? If someone is acting in a LE manner, then I could see him performing the paladin's equivalent of a background check, but the associate rule doesn't mean that a paladin detects every shopkeeper he intereacts with.

2) No, because his code of conduct would not allow him to do so. The priest is not violating any of the strictures of Wee Jas just by being LE.

3) Wouldn't it though? I prefer the LG paladin just for the roleplaying challenge.

 

[Psion]

It does boggle me every time people can't or don't wrap their heads around godless clerics or divine magic powered by will and not by some personality.

They've got a name for magic powered by will: Psionics.

 

[I'm A Banana]

They've got a name for magic powered by will: Psionics.

I'll amend the above statement.

It boggles me when people are very narrow in their definition of how magical hocus-pocus is generated.

I mean, in the core rules, we have music, personality, scientific forumula, "the power of belief," concept-worship, deity-worship, and force-worship. Not to mention the semi-supernatural effects like a monk's that are generated by training or adherence to a discipline.

Add in psioncs and we've got magical hocus-pocus powered by thinking about magical hocus-pocus happening.

Throw in AE -- ritual magic, channeling energy, the power of writing...

Why is it difficult to envision all these existing alongside each other?

I mean, in the real world, people think they gain supernatural power in these ways and more. Magicians use illusion, hypnotists can use sound, kanaima can drink the fermented remains of their victims, most societies use drugs in one way or another, the dawn of writing saw educated scribes as magicians, the Self Help section is full of willing and training and living, people worship God or a god or gods, adhere to strict codes and regimens of behavior, grow their hair out, blow smoke, summon demons from the goetia, become freemasons, or a thousand and one other perfectly normal and extremely exotic things.

"The power of will" has to be psionics? It can't also be divine magic? Or, to make it both is dumb?

Nah, I don't buy it.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

The point of a cleric is that it involves receiving power from a deity, that sort of requires that the deity exist, otherwise where does the power come from? Of course I also favor deities in the vein of the Greeks,Norse,Romans,etc. they aren't just a extraplanar source of power and miracles they are physically there a significant proportion of the time. The temples are the literal homes of the gods who are frequently at one temple or another in person or otherwise gadding about the Material plane. Sure they have realms in the outer planes and usually a shared pantheon realm but they're involved not distant. Think of Final Fantasy Advent Children, now those are just high level PCs, the Gods would stomp all over them and do that sort of thing too.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The point of a cleric is that it involves receiving power from a deity, that sort of requires that the deity exist, otherwise where does the power come from?

RTM.

IMC, it comes from your faith in something greater than yourself, and your desire to be greater than what you are. That "yearning" creates an almost magnetic attraction between you and magic. Much like a magnet, you'll only attract *certain types* of magic, namely, those that you yearn for.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Yep RAW says that it is belief, faith itself, that makes a cleric. I've used it and played it and I don't mind that being the default but when homebrewing I tend to take the above tack if players agree, if they don't I go RAW if the players don't have fun there's no point anyway.