The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[xechnao]

If a 5 level fighter is fighting epic tier minions it is not an problem with the game system. It is a problem with the DM. To even suggest that this is a mechanics issue is rediculous. What DM in their right mind would even let this happen.

So can't a heroic army of 5th level soldiers fighting an epic group of monsters?

 

[Grazzt]

Why would a fifth level character ever be facing a horde of lvl 30 minions? Or even one?

Careless or bad DMing would be my guess.

 

[Keenath]

There is a fighter ability that lets him do [W] damage to everyone who ends their turn next to him. That's gonna wipe out minions in mass quantity, no matter their defenses.

Pardon my bookless ignorance, but according to everything I've heard, minions never take damage unless they're hit by an attack roll, no matter the source. Abilities that deal damage on a miss or automatically don't affect minions, as far as I know... but I could be wrong.

 

[theemrys]

Isn't the rule for minions though that they can only be damaged if "hit"? If so, then if an attack roll is not made... they can't die from it. I haven't read all the rules, but I think that the excerpt covered that...

 

[Andor]

If a 5 level fighter is fighting epic tier minions it is not an problem with the game system.

Do minions exist in game? If so they should be targets of choice. If not, why are they in the game system if they are not in the game?

 

[hong]

So can't a heroic army of 5th level soldiers fighting an epic group of monsters?

They can. But unless the players are involved, the rules don't need to be involved either.

 

[theemrys]

Pardon my bookless ignorance, but according to everything I've heard, minions never take damage unless they're hit by an attack roll, no matter the source. Abilities that deal damage on a miss or automatically don't affect minions, as far as I know... but I could be wrong.

Beat me to it!!!

 

[Grazzt]

So can't a heroic army of 5th level soldiers fighting an epic group of monsters?

If I actually had players suicidal enough to request such a thing, then so be it. Let them run off and find an epic level monster. It wouldn't be a Minion though.

The Minion concept may be familiar to the players ("oooh- minions have 1 hp...free XP"). But it isnt to the characters. They will never know, IMC, whether they are facing minions (if I even use them at all) or true monsters. Sure- they can probably figure it out when monsters drop from a single hit or whatever, but the minions won't have a big glowing bubble over their heads that say "1 HP".

 

[hong]

Isn't the rule for minions though that they can only be damaged if "hit"? If so, then if an attack roll is not made... they can't die from it. I haven't read all the rules, but I think that the excerpt covered that...

The rule is "damage on a miss doesn't hurt a minion". So if you don't roll an attack (like with Cleave), then there's no miss.

 

[Deverash]

What powers grant disarm, exactly?

There's a paragon level fighter power, Exorcism of Steel. Does damage and opponent drops their weapon.

If you want to allow people to disarm, make a Str vs. Reflex attack as standard action. I'd probably even give them the weapon prof bonus. If it's used against an elite, give the elite a +5 bonus to their reflex, +10 vs. a solo (so it doesn't become a must use option against weapon-using solos and elites). They'll deal no damage, but that monster loses their basic attack until they get their weapon back. it drops in the PCs square, I'd guess. If the PC uses their minor action to pick it up, I guess the enemy is gonna have to use a disarm to get it back. or maybe just take theirs.