D&D 5E (2024) The Great Wizard Extinction.

[Zardnaar]

...So two years ago?

Like what even is this statement. 5E and BG3 have the same version of the magic missile spell.

My bg 3 magic missiles.

1d4+2 radiant+1 lighning+1d4thunder, +5 and you get +1 missiles.

So a level 1 spell deals 10-16 damage x4. And knocks you prone.

Adjusted for hit point inflation its similar to 2E one. Maybe a little better.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

True strike doesn't get the extra 1d8, it gets the wis bonus to damage.

The level 7 "blessed strikes" subability "divine strike" works fine with it, which adds +1d8 to weapom attack damage once per turn.
Since it is no cleric cantrip, the other one,, "potent spellcaster", that adds wis to cantrip damage, does not work.

 

[Zardnaar]

The level 7 ability "divine strikes" works fine with it, which adds +1d8
Simce it is no cleric cantrip, the other one, that adds wis to cantrip damage, does not work.

Good catch. Hmm.

Arcana cleric+true strike works.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

My bg 3 magic missiles.

1d4+2 radiant+1 lighning+1d4thunder, +5 and you get +1 missiles.

So a level 1 spell deals 10-16 damage x4. And knocks you prone.

Adjusted for hit point inflation its similar to 2E one. Maybe a little better.

Level one 2nd edition magic missile does 1d4+1 damage.
Magic missile at level 1 in 5e already does 3d4+3 damage.
That is enough to knockout the average level 1 d6 or d8 hp class half of the time.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level one 2nd edition magic missile does 1d4+1 damage.
Magic missile at level 1 in 5e already does 3d4+3 damage.
That is enough to knockout the average level 1 d6 or d8 hp class half of the time.

Have a look at sone other monsters.

5E about 4 times the hp generally, double 3.5.

A 10 level BG3 Evoker with all the items proportionally deals about the same as a 10th level 2E.

Comparison is close level 1, 3+2E. Kobolds and Gobibs are about the only typical low level stuff 5E might win on.

Avg 2E hp cs 5th
Orc 5 vs 15
Ogre avg 18 vs 52
Gnoll 9 vs 22

So depends on level. 3+ its 2E, 1&2 almost a wash 5E might win slightly.

A lvl 1 MM 2E was crap though.

5E one did well once in current campaign. Vs Stirges on DoSI. Then got dumped.

So pretty much worse at all levels right down the line debatable at 1&2. Marginally better than bad is best case scenario.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

My bg 3 magic missiles.

1d4+2 radiant+1 lighning+1d4thunder, +5 and you get +1 missiles.

So a level 1 spell deals 10-16 damage x4. And knocks you prone.

Adjusted for hit point inflation its similar to 2E one. Maybe a little better.

Yeah, BG3 lets the caster get away with shenanigans that a human DM would never allow! MM was good in BG1 and 2 too, for interrupting casters and getting rid of Mirror Images.

I think the issue in 5e is that enemies are generally too easy to hit in 5e, especially as cover and dim lighting rules often seem to be forgotten. So an attack that never misses rarely makes a difference.

MM is not a spell I would consider going out of my way to acquire in 5e.

I seem to remember MM was also pretty poor in 3rd edition.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, BG3 lets the caster get away with shenanigans that a human DM would never allow! MM was good in BG1 and 2 too, for interrupting casters and getting rid of Mirror Images.

I think the issue in 5e is that enemies are generally too easy to hit in 5e, especially as cover and dim lighting rules often seem to be forgotten. So an attack that never misses rarely makes a difference.

MM is not a spell I would consider going out of my way to acquire in 5e.

I seem to remember MM was also pretty poor in 3rd edition.

Yeah wasn't great 3E either.

3.0 essentially added ability scores to 2E monsters. More HP glass cannons though.

Remember warmage 3.5 bring bad? That was with half the hp of 5E critters and free metamagic and auto scaling spells.

Fireball could be decent even as late as 3.5 sort of B tier. Death is still the best debuff but its down from S tier 2E or S+ tier Basic.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Level one 2nd edition magic missile does 1d4+1 damage.
Magic missile at level 1 in 5e already does 3d4+3 damage.
That is enough to knockout the average level 1 d6 or d8 hp class half of the time.

Hit point totals are much higher in 5e than they were in 2e. 2e goblin would average 3.5 hp, so a 2e magic missile would most likely (75%) kill one. 5e goblin has 7 hp, so you would need to hit it with 2 missiles to have a fair (62.5%) chance of killing one, all three to be confident.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hit point totals are much higher in 5e than they were in 2e. 2e goblin would average 3.5 hp, so a 2e magic missile would most likely (75%) kill one. 5e goblin has 7 hp, so you would need to hit it with 2 missiles to have a fair (62.5%) chance of killing one, all three to be confident.

Ok. I knwo that. And you calculated it perfectly. It is 3 missiles at level 1 against 7 hp vs 1 missile against 3.5 hp.

The 5e one performs comparatively better.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ok. I knwo that. And you calculated it perfectly. It is 3 missiles at level 1 against 7 hp vs 1 missile against 3.5 hp.

The 5e one performs comparatively better.

And thats the best it gets. Its all downhill from there.

As I said a lvl 1 MM spell in 2E is bad.