the Hide skill - how do you beat it?

[AuraSeer]

Darkvision foils Hide without fail (to its range).

That's only true if the target is only able to hide because of concealment due to darkness. If he's hiding behind an object, or inside a fog bank, or using any other kind of concealment or cover, Darkvision is no help at all.

 

[Nessin]

Cheap, easy, low-level magic spell gets rid of hide real easy. Can you say Glitterdust? Unlike Fearie Fire, you don't have to actually see the person to cast Glitterdust, it just affects everything.

 

[Darkness]

In addition to what others said...

Is it just me or is the Hide skill the most powerful ability ever?!

Take a rogue with high Dex, max ranks and a Hide potion. How does your average monster with a +4 Spot skill (if thier lucky) see them?

Now, low-CR monsters might have a +4 Spot (or less), true. Higher-CR creatures generally have more than that, though - sometimes much more. Also, if most monsters could routinely beat Hide, Hide would be useless.

Many monsters have alternate sensory powers like scent and blindsight. You can't effectively hide from scent - the creature might not see you but it'll know where you are so it can come and get you. Hiding from blindsight is not easy either.

Further, even if you initially fail to Spot the Rogue, you can get another Spot check as a move action.

 

[MerakSpielman]

You can also use Bluff to hide during combat.

If all you're wanting is a sneak attack, you can also use Bluff to try to deny your opponent his Dex bonus to AC. If you have Improved Feint you can even do this as a move action, and thus, if you roll well (and he rolls poorly), sneak attack an opponent every round of the combat, even when nobody's flanking him and you're not concealed in any way.

 

[dcollins]

Actually, if you are hiding, you are not visible to the target, and therefore they lose their dex bonus to AC against your attacks. This is not spelled out in the rules though.

Can anyone dig up a rules quote that explicitly says that "successfully hidden = invisible" for purposes of combat (such as denying Dex bonus to AC)? Lacking that, I guess that's what I meant by "letter of the rules" above, that it's not really given as an option.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Can anyone dig up a rules quote that explicitly says that "successfully hidden = invisible" for purposes of combat (such as denying Dex bonus to AC)? Lacking that, I guess that's what I meant by "letter of the rules" above, that it's not really given as an option.

Such a quote does not exist, at least in the SRD.

In fact, the SRD description of the Hide skill never explicitly states that, if you are hidden, a creature that fails its Spot check does not see you.

 

[Thanee]

Cheap, easy, low-level magic spell gets rid of hide real easy. Can you say Glitterdust? Unlike Fearie Fire, you don't have to actually see the person to cast Glitterdust, it just affects everything.

You need to be aware of the presence of the rogue first, however, and once you are, it might be too late...

Bye
Thanee

 

[billd91]

Such a quote does not exist, at least in the SRD.

In fact, the SRD description of the Hide skill never explicitly states that, if you are hidden, a creature that fails its Spot check does not see you.

The PHB, however, under the Hide skill says that characters "use this skill to sink back into the shadows and proceed unseen..."
In any event, hide implies pretty strongly that the character is unseen either completely or as a threat (since it also refers to being unnoticed). And you can attack and continue to hide (thus gaining more sneak attacks) but at a significant penalty (see the Sniping entry under the Hide skill).

 

[Darkness]

Can anyone dig up a rules quote that explicitly says that "successfully hidden = invisible" for purposes of combat (such as denying Dex bonus to AC)? Lacking that, I guess that's what I meant by "letter of the rules" above, that it's not really given as an option.

I looked through the Sage Advice in my 3.0 Dragon mags in search of an answer either way for you. What I found follows. I doesn't mention other effects of not being seen, but it does address sneak attacks. I hope it helps.

From Dragon #276:
Q: I don't see any limit on the number of sneak attakcs a rogue can make in a round ... Can the rogue use an AoO as a sneak attack ... ? ...

A: A rogue deals extra damage with a sneak attack any time the target is deneid Dex bonus to AC or anytime the rogue flanks the target, no matter how many attacks the rogue makes. These conditions are not likely to occur during an AoO, but, if they do (such as when the rogue is unseen), the rogue gets her sneak attack bonus damage. ...

From Dragon #307:
Q: ... take a rogue who is armed with a bow and who also has darkvision. Suppose this rogue preys on creatures that can't see in the dark. ... If the rogue is still [after the surprise round] out of vision range, can the rogue continue to make sneak attacks? ... My gaming group is ready to decide that an attacker in complete darkness is effectively invisible to the defender ...

A: If your foe can't see you, that foes loses his Dex bonus against your attacks and you can sneak attack the foe if you have the sneak attack ability and you meet the other requirements for a sneak attack. Being unseen due to darkness is just like being invisible.
It's worth noting that the rogue in your first example could make a sneak attack even if his foes heard him coming. Knowing that you're nearby or even knowing your approximate locaiton (as might happen when the foe makes a successful Listen check or uses an SQ such as scent) doesn't make the foe any more able to defend himself. The fore must be able to observe your actions to use his Dex bonus to deny you a sneak attack. ...

 

[Darkness]

Other clues...

The 3.5 DMG defines Invisible as "Visually undetectable."

Song & Silence has this quote regarding the Hide skill: "If you're a rogue, hiding is probably a significant part of your typical adventuring routine. But you can do much more with this skill than just stay out of sight. You can tail a quarry, sneak up on someone, blend into a crowd, act as a sniper, and even improve your chances of detection while invisible."