The highest-damage fighter power is level 3?!

[hamishspence]

in the power description

States: Two attacks, below that, Hit W+str, below that, Weapon: if you are wielding a spear etc, make a secondary attack. Which is why the arguments:

Basically: theory goes that Weapon is a subcategory of Hit in this case: if you miss with the two primary attacks, you get no secondary ones, and you get 1 secondary attack per successful hit.

 

[MindWanderer]

As much as I agree that it's a balance issue, I have to agree with the OP.

"Weapon:" indented under the "Hit:" line modifies that line. Same applies to "Attack:" and "Effect:" (see Silverstep for an example of the latter). Also se Giant's Wake for a "Weapon:" effect indented under a secondary attack.

So I believe that Rain of Blows should be read, "Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and if you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack." This reading would mean that yes, each hit on a primary attack deals damage and triggers a secondary attack.

Re: "Two attacks": see Dragon's Fangs for an example of another Fighter power that clearly means you do get two primary attacks.

 

[kerbarian]

the fighters lvl 29 Daily, No Mercy, with a Vorpal Falchion and Gauntlets of Destruction is probably more the way forward. 14d4 reroll all 1s and a result of 4 means roll another dice, its a dice rollers dream.

Wow, that's a nasty combo. Hmm... after doing the math, it's not as scary as I thought, though. An extra roll 1/3 of the time, including on the extra rolls, means you get an average of 1.5 rolls. Each roll averages 3, since you can't roll a 1. So that's an average of 4.5 damage per d4, which is the same average damage as a d8. So the combination of vorpal and gauntlets of destruction effectively makes the falchion 2d8 instead of 2d4.

That would be higher damage than Rain of Blows, but Rain of Blows could take back the lead with things that grant damage bonuses, since they have 3x the effect with Rain of Blows -- e.g. Kensei Mastery or Belt of Titan Strength.

 

[hamishspence]

remember solo monsters

All this extra damage is great, but be aware it will be needed: solo monster have a lotta hitpoints.

 

[kerbarian]

If the secondary attack is supposed to be indented under Hit, that means you get a secondary attack each time you hit, for an average of three attacks if you hit half the time.

Can you please cite a rule that supports this statement?

p.59, "Some powers allow you to make secondary (or even tertiary) attacks. The power description indicates if you can make such an attack after the previous attack was a hit, if that attack was a miss, or regardless of whether the previous attack hits or misses."

If the indentation "indicates" that the secondary attack is a result of hitting, then "you can make such an attack after the previous attack was a hit." Two attacks, so it can trigger twice. There's nothing in the rules about the power hitting, or secondary attacks per power -- just whether or not the "previous attack" hits.

Hmm... every other fighter power with a secondary attack mentions the secondary attack either under "Hit" or "Effect", which makes sense with the above rules text. If we treat the indentation as meaning that the "Weapon" text of Rain of Blows should effectively be part of the "Hit" text, then it's pretty clear (to me at least) that a secondary attack can happen with each hit.

If we ignore the indentation and treat the "Weapon" text like an "Effect" instead, then it would mean one automatic secondary attack, whether you hit or miss. IME, the other interpretation makes more sense (one secondary attack per hit), but it could use clarification.

 

[Makaze]

Can you please cite a rule that supports this statement?

There is no rule that explicitly states that. There's also not rule that disproves it either which is the entire problem. Check Silverstep though. Clearly the push effect is meant to be applied to both targets. Each hit causes the weapon effect listed under hit.

Or take a look at Armor Piercing Thrust on the same page. Yes it only makes one attack but pretend for a second that it made two. You'd certainly think that you apply the weapon damage bonus to both hits.

The whole cause of this thread is that there is no clear rule in the book or a standard way of indenting effects.

 

[The Grackle]

I read it as four attacks. If it were only three attacks, it would have to have an effect line that read "make a secondary attack."

 

[3d6+15]

"Weapon:" indented under the "Hit:" line modifies that line. Same applies to "Attack:" and "Effect:" (see Silverstep for an example of the latter). Also se Giant's Wake for a "Weapon:" effect indented under a secondary attack.

You didn't mention however that Giant's Wake explicitly says under HIT: "Make a secondary attack." which is the conditional enabler there. Rain of Blows has no such conditional enabler there.

My take: the secondary attack in Rain of Blows is supplementary to the rest of power and regardless of whether either, both or neither of the primary attacks hit.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

After reading over it, I have to say that the intention is two attacks is normal, with the third attack being if you are wielding the correct weapon.
Another thing to note is that the initial attack(s) must be against the same target while the weapon granted third attack can be against someone else.

 

[pemerton]

This power has already been debated in a couple of threads, including this one in which Ari Marmell expressed his view as to its proper interpretation.

If the secondary attack is supposed to be indented under Hit, that means you get a secondary attack each time you hit, for an average of three attacks if you hit half the time.

If the secondary attack is supposed to be independent of whether you hit, then you always get exactly one secondary attack, again for three total attacks.

Correct. Ari prefers the first interpretation, I argued that the second was correct. I now think Ari's probably right, however. Either way, as you say it makes no difference (assuming a 50% chance to hit).

Btw, in your analysis I don't think you accounted for Weapon Focus giving +3 damage at Epic tier, which makes the comparable damages:

Rain of Blows: 3w + 3*mods = 6d6 + 3*(6 enh + 8 stat + 3 feat) = 21 + 3*17 = 72

No Mercy: 7w + 1*mods = 14d6 + 17 = 66​

I don't think that this makes Rain of Blows strictly better than No Mercy, however. First, No Mercy is Reliable. Secondly, having to deliver one's damage via multiple attacks makes room for more Immediate Interrupts or Reactions to come into play against the attacker (p 268 of the PHB gives the rules for Immediate Reactions against multiple attacks). Third, as others have noted, Resistance applies multiple times. Fourth, Rain of Blows requires a minimum Dex of 15 for the additional attacks, which a Fighter otherwise may not want.

Nevertheless, a Fighter who qualifies for the secondary attacks from Rain of Blows would probably prefer to pick up Force the Battle which would give +6d6 (ie +21 damage) to a Rain of Blows (or, perhaps, Storm of Destruction, which deals 20d6 + 2*mods for an average of 104 damage).