The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[Thomas Shey]

That dismissal--which tends toward (or at least gestures at) "that sucks because it's popular"--is what I'm talking about when I say it's the same fallacy.

I think--sometimes--popularity is a worthwhile thing to look at, but I think it's as likely to point up matters of popular taste (including trends and other Zeitgeist-type effects) as much as the actual quality of a given work. I'm not going to dismiss someone--author, musician, filmmaker--just because they're popular, and if they stay popular for at least a chunk of their career, that does seem as though it says ... something ... even if that is just "They're really good at being popular."

The only thing I have with arguments about quality demonstrated by popularity is, depending what it is, there can be a whole lot of factors in play that make something popular, and quality is only one of them. But people will take it as a given that its the most important one. This doesn't mean in some cases quality isn't the biggest reason, but you just can't take that as a given.

 

[overgeeked]

I think there is a stream of "literature" that was dedicated to hiding the text, and I think Joyce is part of that stream.

Absolutely.

I'd be reluctant to label all of Modernism (and later movements) "vacuous"--while I personally (for instance) see Mark Rothko as "pretty colors" and nothing more, I'd never deny the realty of someone's experience of being moved to tears by him.

The existence of the Placebo effect does not transform homeopathy into medicine. Someone having a conditioned response doesn’t mean that correlation suddenly becomes causation.

 

[billd91]

Do I have to?

If you ever do, laying groundwork is a good idea. Reading Dubliners and A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man first will help.

 

[prabe]

The existence of the Placebo effect does not transform homeopathy into medicine. Someone having a conditioned response doesn’t mean that correlation suddenly becomes causation.

I would be very, very careful about reducing someone's response to art thus. I was moved to tears yesterday--several times--by Stop Making Sense (in IMAX, first time seeing it). You do you, though.

 

[niklinna]

We see plenty of cases where a musician has a big hit that makes it nearly impossible to ignore them and time passes with people largely forgetting about them. The interesting thing to me is sustained popularity. Something doesn't continue to grow in popularity for 10 years without there being something there beyond "it's popular". For some things, the parasocial aspect is definitely a thing in a sustained level of popularity but that doesn't always explain everything because well.. it's complicated.

I think it would be a fascinating thing to discuss further, but I also think it stands a snowball's chance in hell of not ending in edition warring and the mods needing to close the discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.

What the heck though—which edition of Taylor Swift is your favorite?


(Or perhaps David Bowie, or Madonna.)

 

[prabe]

If you ever do, laying groundwork is a good idea. Reading Dubliners and A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man first will help.

I have heard that working your way up to later Joyce by reading earlier Joyce is the way. I have heard something similar about Faulkner. I haven't done either--just reporting that this is something like received wisdom.

 

[niklinna]

I think paying attention to why a thing is popular--learning what people want--is a worthwhile thing, of course. One might argue that pickup trucks, for instance, are popular in part because CAFE allows manufacturers to sell them at a better value-point for lots of individual consumers--externalities notwithstanding.

What do pickup trucks have to do with coffee?

 

[Gradine]

Won't someone think of the poor unloved companies?!?

Do I have to?

If you ever do, laying groundwork is a good idea. Reading Dubliners and A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man first will help.

Alternatively, you can down a fifth of Sexton Single Malt, spin in place widdershins thirteen times, and then charge head first into the nearest wall, and that'll pretty much get you in the right frame of mind as well. Your choice which'll be the more painful experience.

 

[prabe]

What do pickup trucks have to do with coffee?

 

[overgeeked]

I would be very, very careful about reducing someone's response to art thus. I was moved to tears yesterday--several times--by Stop Making Sense (in IMAX, first time seeing it). You do you, though.

Of course. It’s a beautiful concert film and the Talking Heads make spectacular music. That’s nowhere near Joyce or the Blue Dot.