The Importance of Correct Punctuation

[reveal]

An opinion is something everybody has, everybody is entitled to, and can be anything. Grammar is a convention, which means that a large group all agree to do something the same way in order to proceed with less confusion. It may be your opinion to follow a period with four commas, but that is certainly not the convention.

Can we please be civil? This thread was started (not by me) as a way to simply vent a few grammar pet peeves. I do not recall anyone here running out and editing other peoples' posts as grammar police.

I am trying to stay out of this now. Why it has become so nasty, I don't know.

Actually, I started the thread because I thought the quote was a funny example of how incorrect punctuation can be amusing.

I think the reason it became nasty was because you were the only person who posted their "pet peeves" and then tried to convince everyone else that it was the only correct way to do things because "you know better than the rest of us," even though we have shown you proof otherwise. You go back and forth between "it's just my opinion so what does it matter?" to "I am an authority on the subject, so this is how it should be."

 

[Bront]

Sorry, there's not. This sentence is properly puctuated, though, to improve clarity, it might be reworked entirely:

"Unless directed by a physician, do not use this product if you have heart disease, high blood pressure, narrow angle glaucoma or trouble urinating."

Yes, but the lack of a comma can lead to some rather misleading interpretations

 

[Abstraction]

I'm sorry that your thread got derailed. I hadn't meant for the discussion on spaces to happen at all. I was just venting. Seemed like a good thread at the time.

I really want to just let the discussion die, but your last statement is really just too much. EVERY bit of your "proof" actually confirms what I've been saying all along! Every guideline strongly recommends against a double space. Every time I point this out, you seem to interpret the guidelines to say, "Eh, do whatever you want".

Okay, that's it. I'm going over to some more positive threads, now.

 

[Goblyn]

Well, here is a link to someone's pet peeve about the apostrophe --> http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif

Enjoy.

 

[reveal]

I'm sorry that your thread got derailed. I hadn't meant for the discussion on spaces to happen at all. I was just venting. Seemed like a good thread at the time.

I really want to just let the discussion die, but your last statement is really just too much. EVERY bit of your "proof" actually confirms what I've been saying all along! Every guideline strongly recommends against a double space. Every time I point this out, you seem to interpret the guidelines to say, "Eh, do whatever you want".

Okay, that's it. I'm going over to some more positive threads, now.

"Recommends" is the operative word. What you kept saying was "You MUST not use two spaces." That's it.

The context of my job is to know what professional standards are. Just like anything else, there are no standards for amateurs. So, yes, you may use two periods after sentence. I can't stop you. If you do, you are labeling yourself an amateur. I can say that authoritively.

This is an example. If you had said something like, "In my years of experience, I have seen many proofreaders label people as 'amateurs' if they use two spaces after a period," that would have been great advice. Instead, we get is something that says "If you use two spaces after a period, you are an amateur because I am an authority on the subject." This probably won't fly well with a lot of the pubslihed authors on here.

 

[ZuulMoG]

I was also taught the old way. In my day to day online chat or message board posts I do only use one. But I believe I use two in formal documents. Wow, I suddenly feel old and crotchety.

One always uses two spaces after a period at the end of a sentence. That's just how it's done. If someone doesn't like that, they should have more of a reason than because they say so. I enjoy typing two spaces after a sentence. It makes me happy. It makes everybody happy. I don't see a problem. Is there any valid rationale behind this bizarre insistence on single-spacing sentences?

 

[Pielorinho]

One always uses two spaces after a period at the end of a sentence. That's just how it's done. If someone doesn't like that, they should have more of a reason than because they say so. I enjoy typing two spaces after a sentence. It makes me happy. It makes everybody happy. I don't see a problem. Is there any valid rationale behind this bizarre insistence on single-spacing sentences?

I can't tell whether you're being tongue-in-cheek or not. If you are, okay then. If you're not, I think it's fair to say that the "one" in your first sentence is not a correct use of the third-person impersonal .

Personally, I tend to put two spaces after a period, because that's how I learned it, and when typing at 70 wpm, it's difficult for me to think about the punctuation and spacing. It just happens. I'm happy to rely on my computer to autocorrect it for me, and I'm very happy to adjust my autocorrect feature to match local customs.

The major thing I taught my students when I was a writing tutor was this: KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. Presumably, you're writing in order to communicate concepts to the audience; and while punctuation can be noticeable when it's beautiful and part of the concept (see e.e. cummings's poetry for the classic example), punctuation and the like should never ever be visible as an impediment to that communication. Try to know what the expectations are for the audience to whom you want to communicate: if they'll notice your run-on sentences, or your use of archaisms, or your reliance on m-dashes, or your double-space post-period, then eliminate these things from your writing for that audience. By doing so, you'll communicate your idea more effectively.

This applies no matter the audience. I once tag-team-taught a ten-minute presentation on our humane society, alongside our director of animal control. He spoke very correctly and accurately about such things as the fact that "Our local ordinance, at least within our jurisdiction, prohibits allowing animals off-leash except when on the owner's property."

The poor six-year-olds didn't know what had hit them: they just stared at him with big round eyes, as if he were speaking Croatian. Eventually I stepped in and said, "That's right: if you have a dog, it has to stay in your yard or in your house. Unless! Unless it's on a leash!" Not quite as accurate, and not conforming to standard grammar (like this sentence), but I was speaking to my audience.

Know your audience, and tailor your communication to them. All else is salad forks.

Daniel

 

[reveal]

Know your audience, and tailor your communication to them. All else is salad forks.

I'm also a teacher. I think this is the first thing you learn when you start teaching. I consider it the golden rule.

 

[sniffles]

Bump.

Too bad Abstraction got all shirty and went off in a huff. I kind of like him because he's pedantic, like me.

Okay, this is not a punctuation peeve, but it's related. I'm reading an article in Dungeon #124, and during the course of this adventure the author uses the word "ovular" at least twice to describe a shape. I'm not even sure that's really a word, but I am sure it would be much preferable if he used "oval".

In addition, at one point he describes something as a "stylistic arrow". I interpret stylistic to mean a choice or decision, as in "the director of Sin City made the stylistic choice to film predominantly in black and white". I think the descriptive phrase in the article should say "stylized arrow", because the object being described is designed to resemble an arrow but does not look exactly like an arrow.

Any takers for this argument?

 

[Abstraction]

Well, maybe it was shaped like an ovum? Ovaries?