The incredible shrinking stat block!

[Quickleaf]

Stat blocks take up a lot of space. As I was looking over some of the Dungeon adventures put out recently I thought about ways to shrink the stat block into something more manageable.

I decided to tackle two examples: a kobold minion & an elite roper.

BD&D had these really short one or two-line entries for guards and such, the equivalent of minions. Boring as heck, but you could fit a ton of them in. I wanted something in between those extremes. Maybe I could have gone further, but as you can see, I shrunk the stat block in half.

The roper was much more difficult, and I'm still not satisfied with "tentacle grab". Part of the idea was to include more information (succinctly) next to the name of the power/ability itself. Judge for yourself whether I succeeded at anything here.

I'm also working on a radical redesign of the stat block, and I'll post that next.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Those are pretty good.

Cutting out non-combat stuff would be nice.

Also, cutting out rules reminders is nice also. (like minion)

 

[delericho]

Also, cutting out rules reminders is nice also. (like minion)

I disagree. Everything you need to run the creature should be included. Granted, 'minion' is an extreme case, but I'd still rather see them use one more line in the stat block than have to look something up.

However, the revised stat blocks are, generally, an improvement.

 

[DonAdam]

I like having the ability scores; allows for non-trained skill checks. Being able to see the intelligence of the monster also helps in deciding its tactics.

Otherwise, a great improvement.

 

[MarkB]

I'd suggest at least including Athletics and Acrobatics skill modifiers in the stat blocks, in case the PCs break out some grabbing attacks.

 

[drackcove]

Um these are using the old stat blocks. try this again with the mm3 style stat block so its more useful. Good design though.

 

[OnlineDM]

Interesting. I like the idea of abbreviated stat blocks, but I'm not sure that I like the actual execution.

On the one hand, eliminating things like the reminder that a missed attack doesn't damage a minion or that a elite has an action point will save space with no cost to experienced DMs. However, this will not work for any product that a newer DM might use. So, doing it for your own use makes sense, but I wouldn't recommend that WotC do it across the board.

I do like some of the layout changes - taking advantage of the empty space at the top of the stat block to include the alignment and languages, for instance.

Also, it looks like both of the examples you used were from older stat blocks that don't use the Standard Actions, Minor Actions, Traits, Triggered Abilities layout. That breakdown takes up more space in the stat block, but I think it makes monsters easier to run.

In the end, I share your annoyance with how much space stat blocks take up (I've struggled with this in my own adventures), but ultimately I think that WotC gets it right. There's a lot of information in the stat block, but it makes it easy to run monsters right out of the book, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. Maybe there could be a few tweaks to save a few lines (moving alignment and languages, abbreviating flavor abilities like the Stony Body of the Roper), but most of what's there should be there in the form that it currently is.

 

[Quickleaf]

Those are pretty good.

Cutting out non-combat stuff would be nice.

Also, cutting out rules reminders is nice also. (like minion)

The way I see it is that "non-combat stuff" should get exactly one line, and I'm thinking it should include tags to play the monster. For example the kobold minion would get these tags: Evil, trap-maker, devious, flighty.

I disagree. Everything you need to run the creature should be included. Granted, 'minion' is an extreme case, but I'd still rather see them use one more line in the stat block than have to look something up.

However, the revised stat blocks are, generally, an improvement.

Yeah minion is one that IMO can go. However overall I tend to agree with you.

I like having the ability scores; allows for non-trained skill checks. Being able to see the intelligence of the monster also helps in deciding its tactics.

Otherwise, a great improvement.

Well...I didn't explicitly state this but the defenses are essentially untrained skills for monsters. So you want your kobold to make an untrained Acrobatics check? Use Reflex. It means you don't roll, but isn't saving time at the table worth it?

And the idea I had about tags was to include everything you need to play the monster, actually a bit more specific than it's intelligence.

I'd suggest at least including Athletics and Acrobatics skill modifiers in the stat blocks, in case the PCs break out some grabbing attacks.

Well So long as the monster is untrained then using its Fortitude or Reflex works just fine. But yes, if it were trained I'd need to include that somehow.

What I'm working on now is an NPC and a solo epic dragon. I'm not sure about you, but my eyes start to blur at the walls of text that constitute elite and solo monsters, especially after running several monsters leading up to a climactic fight. So I'm flexing my graphic design muscles to redesign the stat block into something easy on the eyes (and more intuitive at a glance).

For example, I'm considering a shield for AC (I'll keep the "AC" label in a small font size beneath it's value). Also an eye for Perception. I'm playing with font sizes, colors, boxes, symbols, and layout with a mind toward actual play.

Oh and I've adopted the rule that initiative ties always go to the PCs. That ensures you don't need dexterity at all for breaking initiative ties where the init value is the same.

 

[Scribble]

I like your idea (smaller stat blocks are easier to keep track of...) but I think you have to be careful with how you do it.

(I think they did a good thing with the newer statblocks, making use of empty space up top and what not.)

Unfortunately I think with your examples some of the stuff you put together ends up making it feel cluttered. It forces my eyes to wander around slightly longer to find what I need because some stuff just isn't related. (I don't really need languages for instance when I'm looking for initiative or speed.)

Slightly longer isn't the end of the world, but it ads up... especially at say 10:30 in a Friday night, after a beer or two.

I understand the idea behind eliminating the action point thing, but I tend to use that as a thing to cross off when they use the action point (and sometimes it reminds me they have one.)

I also understand the idea behind condensing the explanation of the powers, but I think you have to think about how it will be read in the "thick of things," as well as how the rules lawyer looking for any possible out will read into it.

 

[Quickleaf]

Um these are using the old stat blocks. try this again with the mm3 style stat block so its more useful. Good design though.

I will indeed! I wanted to start at a more Spartan level first. And actually I could have pushed that more. For example, the kobold's "shifty" could be a simple annotation to speed: "(minor) shift 1".

While I agree that the MM3 style stat blocks are a little easier to read, for something like a minion it's absurd to waste space on a line that says "Standard Actions" when it only gets one kind.

Interesting. I like the idea of abbreviated stat blocks, but I'm not sure that I like the actual execution.

On the one hand, eliminating things like the reminder that a missed attack doesn't damage a minion or that a elite has an action point will save space with no cost to experienced DMs. However, this will not work for any product that a newer DM might use. So, doing it for your own use makes sense, but I wouldn't recommend that WotC do it across the board.

Disagree about the minion. Agree about action points. The definition of a minion is that it goes down in one hit, saying that it's got 1 HP and does t take damage on a miss is superfluous. I get that this might be a challenge for newbie DMs, but I'm taking for granted that gamers are a smart enough bunch to remember a simple detail like what a minion is.

You raise a good point about action points. I like when their use is described in the tactics section (especially for newer DMs). Does that mean it should or shouldnt be listed in the stat block?

I do like some of the layout changes - taking advantage of the empty space at the top of the stat block to include the alignment and languages, for instance.

Also, it looks like both of the examples you used were from older stat blocks that don't use the Standard Actions, Minor Actions, Traits, Triggered Abilities layout. That breakdown takes up more space in the stat block, but I think it makes monsters easier to run.

*nod* I share your thoughts and I'm working on some ideas I have for jus that issue. In a nutshell a monster stat block should read like a flowchart. The first thing you need is initiative and basic combat info, then traits, then... I think it depends on the monster here (and whether its minion, standard, elite, or solo) ...and triggered abilities. I realize that's the MM3 approach, but I'm using that as the basis for a different presentation.

In the end, I share your annoyance with how much space stat blocks take up (I've struggled with this in my own adventures), but ultimately I think that WotC gets it right. There's a lot of information in the stat block, but it makes it easy to run monsters right out of the book, and that's the way it should be in my opinion. Maybe there could be a few tweaks to save a few lines (moving alignment and languages, abbreviating flavor abilities like the Stony Body of the Roper), but most of what's there should be there in the form that it currently is.

Disagree. For starters, I think the different types of monsters - minions, standards, elites, and solos - should have different types of stat blocks. Or rather different levels of information in the stat block.

But we'll see. I'm just brainstorming ideas and experimenting right now, throwing out ideas and presentations to think outside the box.