D&D 5E (2014) The Logistics of Trapping a God (Or all of them.)

[tglassy]

Well, when gods lose followers, they lose power. Gods who have no followers die. If everyone believes that Cric is the one true God, then the other gods don't need to be trapped. They just fade away.

 

[JasmineF]

Well, when gods lose followers, they lose power. Gods who have no followers die. If everyone believes that Cric is the one true God, then the other gods don't need to be trapped. They just fade away.

True, but I figured the only problem with that is that the distribution of a book as a method of turning followers would take time, and during that time the other Gods might notice their influence dropping and possibly figure out something fishy was happening. The trapping would pretty much just to stop them from interefering with the early stages of the plan, as that's the only time they would be a threat.

 

[JasmineF]

Why not trick the gods into reading the book, thereby making them his obedient thrawls? Ao is the real threat though. How is he going to deal with Ao?

Not sure about how to deal with Ao, that is gonna be a big problem. But tricking all the Gods into reading the book would probably be difficult, and I'm pretty sure the one god that did canonically read it didn't become Cyric's follower according to the lore I read, it just said he lost a lot of power.

 

[JasmineF]

He tried that a few times. Notably at his trial when he had grown so insane he was utterly terrible at his job as God of Strife. (He was doing nothing to lead or send his followers on spreading strife other then in their own ranks.) As a result the other greater gods were growing fed up with him and decided to put Cyric on trial.

He tried to being in the book as evidence but the gods pretty much refused to have it read for them. However Mystara knowing the book was altered into "The true life of Cyric" made it so that it could be read. "The true life of Cyric" is a version of the book that instead of being a book of lies that proclaims Cyric the one true god, describes the truth of Cyric and his true petty, selfish and deceitful being. "The true life of Cyric" has no negative effects instead it actually cures anyone who read the Cyrinishad of their madness. (In the case of the gods attending Cyric was cured as he was the only one who read it.)

Anyone a good idea for getting rid of the other gods is saying they read the book. "The true life of Cyric" gives a way to save the day as well.

Sounds legit! Though I figured it might be difficult for him to convince all the other Gods to read a book. Does a God reading the Cyrinishad have the same effect as a mortal reading it, or does it just take a chunk of their power and make them a bit mad?

 

[tglassy]

AO is supposed to be so high above the other gods, it's like comparing one of them to a mortal. But he's typically not interested in what happens as long as the universe is going on as it's supposed to. So...just ignore him. Or have him play a part in the heroes finding and resurrecting the other gods. Maybe the heroes have to beseech him for help, which would be hard since he typically doesn't get involved.

[sblock=My Campaign]I actually have a campaign where a plague was released by some big bads that infects people who have faith. It swept the world, and anyone who worshiped any god became deathly sick and died soon after. The only cure was to renounce your faith, and magical healing didn't seem to help.

It happened so fast that the gods began to drop like flies. Just as the last of the gods were fading, it was discovered that those who worship Ao didn't get the disease. In fact, worshipping Ao along with another god allowed then to become immune.

Of course, the world is nearly overwhelmed with undead at this point, but at least Clerics are coming back into the world. [/sblock]


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[MonsterEnvy]

Sounds legit! Though I figured it might be difficult for him to convince all the other Gods to read a book. Does a God reading the Cyrinishad have the same effect as a mortal reading it, or does it just take a chunk of their power and make them a bit mad?

It should have the same effect. But it was never actually read.

Pretty much for his trial he found the mortal Malik el Sami (One of his devout followers) who managed to find the Cyrinishad, and brought him in as a witness as being good at his job as God of Strife with his job to read the book in front of all the other greater gods. Tyr being god of justice was presiding over the trial and was empowered by Ao to enforce the rules despite realizing the trap was going to have no choice but to let the book be read. Mystara actually cursed Malik in to being unable to lie at this point, and other the other gods through their objections got the trial postponed. After which Malik and Mystara got the book replaced by the "True Life of Cyric" Malik going along with it due to thinking this was the best way to help his god.

Cyric was cured of his madness and managed to convince at least half the gods he could preform his duty as god of strife. After which he made Malik his Seraph of Lies (Malik stated this does not make a ton of sense as he can't lie, which is why Cyric said he was perfect for the job).

 

[Saeviomagy]

AO is supposed to be so high above the other gods, it's like comparing one of them to a mortal. But he's typically not interested in what happens as long as the universe is going on as it's supposed to. So...just ignore him. Or have him play a part in the heroes finding and resurrecting the other gods. Maybe the heroes have to beseech him for help, which would be hard since he typically doesn't get involved.

Except... the gods in FR ARE mortals, just ascended ones. And they can be killed by each other and by mortals. And... etc etc.

So saying "Ao is to gods as gods are to mortals" would also include "Ao could be killed by a god, and it might be a bad thing to happen."

 

[tglassy]

No, I'm pretty sure Lorewise that Ao is the exception to every rule about the gods. He doesn't need worshipers to function, he has absolute control over the entire pantheon, and every pantheon. He caused the Time of Troubles, casting every god except Helm out into the Mortal Realm, forcing them to be mortal for a time.

I don't think every god in FR is a mortal who ascended. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's not the case. In FR, the gods were given their authority by Ao, in order to keep the universe in order. Each had a portfolio. When they clashed, one of a few things would happen: they'd rebound, one would destroy the other and therefore take over their portfolio, or they'd merge. Either way, Ao was the one who made those rules. Saying you can kill Ao and take his place is to no longer have a means by which the universe was created.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Except... the gods in FR ARE mortals, just ascended ones. And they can be killed by each other and by mortals. And... etc etc.

So saying "Ao is to gods as gods are to mortals" would also include "Ao could be killed by a god, and it might be a bad thing to happen."

No only a few gods in FR are ascended mortals. Lots have just always been gods. Also they can't be killed by Mortals by default. Generally the Mortals need a Divine Spark themselves or to be empowered by another god to kill them.

 

[Saeviomagy]

No, I'm pretty sure Lorewise that Ao is the exception to every rule about the gods. He doesn't need worshipers to function, he has absolute control over the entire pantheon, and every pantheon. He caused the Time of Troubles, casting every god except Helm out into the Mortal Realm, forcing them to be mortal for a time.

Right, so he's not 'to gods what the gods are to mortals'.

Oh, actually he doesn't have absolute control over the pantheon, or he would not have needed to kick all the gods to the mortal realm NOR recruit helm to guard the way back. He would have just forced Myrkul and his cronies to return the tablets.

So he has some carrots and sticks, but he's not all powerful.

I don't think every god in FR is a mortal who ascended. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

You're right. A bunch of them sprung out of nothing, or created each other.

In FR, the gods were given their authority by Ao, in order to keep the universe in order.

Questionable: there's not really much mention of him outside of creating the crystal sphere, then stirring up the time of troubles. A bunch of the gods seem to have sprung out of nothing, and assigned each other their portfolios.

Each had a portfolio. When they clashed, one of a few things would happen: they'd rebound, one would destroy the other and therefore take over their portfolio, or they'd merge. Either way, Ao was the one who made those rules.

Well, no. He's the one who enforces some sort of rules, but the rules are hardly well defined, and probably not defined by him, as there's something above him that he answers to.

Saying you can kill Ao and take his place is to no longer have a means by which the universe was created.

Hardly. That's like saying if my mechanic were to die and another mechanic took his place, my car would have no means by which it was created. Even if my mechanic also happened to be the manufacturer of my car, if someone takes his place, things will probably be ok. My car's not going to spontaneously disintegrate.

That said, given what happens if the god of magic is unseated in FR, you might expect some transitional issues were you to unseat an overgod.