[+] The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[TheSword]

I don't think the turning-into-moths bit was their idea. I think that's what was done to them, and that it's another thematic link between the Stranger and the Gandalf we know.

That being the case, I don't think they're coming back.

You don’t think it’s possible they may end up as some of the nine?

 

[Ryujin]

Yes the spinning was definitely a nod… as was ‘follow your nose’.

I guess they haven’t had to consider how Sauron comes back as even if they died isn’t addressed in the series. I got the impression that Mystics were wraiths though and always have been so I presume they are not destroyed. They did appear to be flying away as moths. One actually screamed like a Ringwraith when it was stabbed by the Harfoots.

Saruman is presumably somewhere… maybe. Just not here. Or maybe he hasn’t arrived yet. Clearly the transition is confusing for the Istari. I guess it isn’t relevant to the story yet.

I don’t think the one ring is made. Or the others. Just the elven rings. I’m guessing that will be a big part of the next season. Particularly as the Halbrand actor said he is keen to have some scenes with dwarves.

Maybe she can use magic but I’m not sure at what point she was supposed to use it on Sauron, there wasn’t really that kind of opportunity. I’m ok with that.

I don't have the books with me but I think that even in the appendices the Elven Rings were supposed to be made after The One and all of the others, which is why they weren't under Sauron's control. We may find out that Sauron has already made the others and has distributed them, next season.

 

[Rabulias]

That being the case, I don't think they're coming back.

I agree, and this would maintain later Sauron's ignorance of the harfoots/hobbits. If the three reformed and joined the real Sauron, they would surely report on their experiences, including the presence of an Istari among these short creatures.

You don’t think it’s possible they may end up as some of the nine?

The nine are human lords/kings corrupted by the control of the One Ring, IIRC. Since the One Ring is not made yet, and the three are not human, I don't see this as possible. Not to mention that the nine were all men, underlining Eowyn's victory.

 

[TheSword]

I agree, and this would maintain later Sauron's ignorance of the harfoots/hobbits. If the three reformed and joined the real Sauron, they would surely report on their experiences, including the presence of an Istari among these short creatures.

The nine are human lords/kings corrupted by the control of the One Ring, IIRC. Since the One Ring is not made yet, and the three are not human, I don't see this as possible. Not to mention that the nine were all men, underlining Eowyn's victory.

Good point about them being men. These were maybe proto-wraiths of some kind. Servants of Morgoth or Sauron before his defeat.

 

[Mercurius]

I think at this point it’s worth mentioning that this is a + thread and it’s not supposed to be about people trashing the show. I mean you might be right, maybe not but you’ll never prove it.

I'm not trashing the show, at least not in this thread. Meaning, saying Tolkien wouldn't like it does not equate with trashing the show. But I hear and take the general point.

 

[Mercurius]

So Sauron died and came back? But morgoth can’t? I wonder if the 3 servants can also come back
Did the blue wizards arrive before gandolf or with him? Wasn’t sauroman the leader of the wizards?
Those who wear the rings at some point become wraiths to the one ring? Was that already created

Galadriel has magic? Wasn’t she more powerful than gandolf? Didn’t she use magic in the battle with gandolf etc against the necromancer?

All I can do is answer from as I understand Tolkien's lore. Whether or not the show will diverge (or how much) is anyone's guess.

Sauron and Morgoth. Morgoth was defeated at the end of the First Age and cast out into the Void. He isn't dead, per se, just outside of creation, and can't come back in. That said, at one point Tolkien posited a prophesy that Morgoth would return in a Ragnarok-like Dagor Dagorath, or "Battle of All Battles." But he didn't develop this further, at least in his published notes.

Sauron didn't die at the end of the First Age, but instead hid in Middle-earth before gradually gathering power during the Second Age. He tried to sway the Elves by appearing to them as Annatar, "Lord of Gifts," and helped them forge the rings. Eventually the elves rejected him and war ensued. Later, he gave himself up to the Numenoreans and was taken to Numenor, where he quickly went from prisoner to advisor to the king. He eventually convinced Ar-Pharazon to sail west and attack the Valar. It didn't go well, Numenor was sunk, and Sauron did die - his body, at least. His spirit returned to Mordor and he rebuilt himself. Centuries later, he was again killed (physically) by Isildur, as depicted in the prologue to Peter Jackson's trilogy.

Or to summarize, Sauron didn't die at the end of the First Age. He died three times (that I can remember) - twice in the Second Age, and once--and supposedly a final time--at the end of the Third Age, with the destruction of the One Ring. Morgoth, on the other hand, was never killed, just banished outside of creation.

The Istari. A thousand years into the Third Age, when the Valar learned that Sauron was rising again, they sent the Istari, or five Wizards, to MIddle-earth to help. I believe Saruman (the leader) and one of the blue wizards went first, then were joined by Gandalf, Radagast, and the other blue wizard. The two blue wizards went east to combat Sauron's influence there, and disappeared from the story. Supposedly they gave rise to various esoteric orders (and thus may be Tolkien's origin story of various esoteric and occult orders, and/or Eastern mysticism).

The Rings. When the elves were forging the rings in Eregion (Second Age), Sauron secretly made the One Ring to control them. The Men were corrupted and became the Nazgul, but the Elves sensed his treachery and took theirs off and hid them. Dwarves were given seven rings and proved to be too strong-willed to be dominated by Sauron, using them to gain great wealth, though also became increasingly greedy. I believe their rings were either destroyed or stolen by Sauron. So to answer your question, only the nine men became wraiths - the seven Dwarf-lords and three elves did not. During the LotR, Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf wore the elven rings. I believe at one point Cirdan the Shipwright wore a ring, but gave his to Gandalf.

Magic (and Galadriel). Magic is very understated in Tolkien's stories, so it is hard to say how it is used beyond relatively minor effects done by Gandalf. For instance, he used a sword in his battle against the Balrog, and so you can say that Gandalf was "magic-infused," but not casting D&D-esque spells.

Galadriel was an ancient Eldar elf (meaning, she had lived in Valinor), some of whom were close in power to the Maiar - among whose number are Gandalf and the other wizards. So while I don't think you can really rank Middle-earth characters in terms of power, there is a rough hierarchy. Another elf of great power was Glorfindel, who died fighting (and killing) a Balrog in the First Age, but was brought back to life and went to Middle-earth, and lived in Rivendell. He was considered to be about as powerful as a Maiar, I believe.

 

[Ryujin]

Can't remember where I read it but in the Third Age, at least, there was a warning that powerful magic shouldn't be used for fear of attracting the unwanted attention of powerful (and evil) beings.

 

[Tonguez]

.

I don’t think the one ring is made. Or the others. Just the elven rings. I’m guessing that will be a big part of the next season. Particularly as the Halbrand actor said he is keen to have some scenes with dwarves.

Maybe she can use magic but I’m not sure at what point she was supposed to use it on Sauron, there wasn’t really that kind of opportunity. I’m ok with that.

yeah the three elven rings go to Galadrial (silver) Elrond (blue) and Gil-galad (later Gandalf) (red) they were made first, then Sauron goes off and forges the One Ring in Mt Doom - which I assume is where Halbrand is going off to do in season 2. Not sure when the Dwarf rings get made

its only the nine rings that go to humans that turn the wearer into Ring-Wraiths

I believe their rings were either destroyed or stolen by Sauron. So to answer your question, only the nine men became wraiths - the seven Dwarf-lords and three elves did not. During the LotR, Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf wore the elven rings. I believe at one point Cirdan the Shipwright wore a ring, but gave his to Gandalf.

Sauron was only able to get three of the Dwarf rings, Gandalf claims that the other four were eaten by dragons
.

 

[reelo]

yeah the three elven rings go to Galadrial (silver) Elrond (blue) and Gil-galad (later Gandalf) (red) they were made first, then Sauron goes off and forges the One Ring in Mt Doom - which I assume is where Halbrand is going off to do in season 2. Not sure when the Dwarf rings get made.

In canon the 3 elven rings were actually made last, except for the One Ring.
The 16 others (along with other, "lesser" rings) were crafted before that by the Gwaith-i-Mírdain (Celebrimbor&Co) and Annatar together.

Then, Annatar left Eregion (presumably to craft the One) and the elves, having "learned" the craft from him, forged the Three alone, without his involvement.

So this is actually a non-trivial change.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just finished the latest episode.

Last three episodes were quite good. Had various issues before that around pacing and character development.

The setup of the world is kinda interesting but there's no stand out characters to care about that much at this point.

Sliw paced and event driven vs character.