The Mortal God

[Weyland]

I am becoming a fan of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series of books by Steven Erikson. In those books, deities can definitely be challenged, and defeated, and even killed. I am in favor of making that possible in D&D. It's truly epic!

Yup, same here (just started in on House of Chains, as it happens). I'm hoping to run a campaign with this sort of feel (though I'd still dearly love an actual campaign writeup for the Malazan books...), and the gods, while beefy, can still die.

I was also thinking of the Jhereg books by Steven Brust. They may be quite powerful, but the gods there can certainly be killed (although the actual effects on them are limted).

In short, I like the idea. As an above poster says, we can always ignore the stats if we want.

 

[Goobermunch]

I don't think I'll ever run a god-killing campaign that involves killing a god the hard way, ie, by smashing its hit points.

I might run a god-killing campaign where epic quests and artifacts were involved, but not one where the god was killed by being run through.

That being said, it is easier to ignore god-killing in a game that has it than it is to add god-killing to a game which does not. So I'm for this change.

Didn't Rich Baker say something about not being able to kill Bane unless you had the right set of artefacts, and went about it in the right way (perhaps even needing the involvement of the properly prophesied members of the correct bloodline)?

--G

 

[Steely Dan]

not stats for flying spaghetti monster.

Tell that to my buddy who is running a mean d20 Super Mario Bros campaign…

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I do not believe that Gods can be killed by mortals. It is not certain, but the writings from the Book of Venkman can be interpreted to conclude that a God cannot die:

Gozer: [after Ray orders her to re-locate] Are you a God?
[Ray looks at Peter, who nods]
Dr Ray Stantz: No.
Gozer: Then... DIE!
[Lightning flies from her fingers, driving the Ghostbusters to the edge of the roof and almost off; people below scream]
Winston Zeddemore: Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES"!

So, if Gozer needed to know if they were gods first, it can by implied that, had they said yes, she would have thought she would be unable to kill them.

In all seriousness, I don't feel that a mortal PC, even a 30th level one should be able to destroy a God. Perhaps they could facilitate their destruction, but I think it would take the power of another God to complete it. Maybe once I see how they describe the powers of 30th level PCs I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

 

[TerraDave]

Based on the poll, there seems to be support for divine stats.

But, that whole imortality thing needs to be approached carefully.

Permenantly destroying a god probably should not just be about the HP (though you may able to destroy material form that way, but if they are really a god, that should only be so important).

I am curious to see their aproach. Deities and Demigods and FR Faiths and Avatars in 09?

 

[Voadam]

I do not believe that Gods can be killed by mortals. It is not certain, but the writings from the Book of Venkman can be interpreted to conclude that a God cannot die:

So, if Gozer needed to know if they were gods first, it can by implied that, had they said yes, she would have thought she would be unable to kill them.

In all seriousness, I don't feel that a mortal PC, even a 30th level one should be able to destroy a God. Perhaps they could facilitate their destruction, but I think it would take the power of another God to complete it. Maybe once I see how they describe the powers of 30th level PCs I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

Nah, you have to read the next page of the book to get the whole story. Regardless of what interpretation you put on her purpose for questioning whether they are gods, mortals did blow her up. All you need to do is cross the streams.

 

[apoptosis]

I would first think through what is a God and what does it mean to be a God and then determine whether stats fit in with this conception.

If Gods are just powerful monsters that give Clerics spells then stats are probably fine.

If Gods are the beings who created and control reality then maybe stats are counterproductive though there is enough mythology of creator gods being killed by mortals that they could still be statted.

If Gods dont really exist then stats are kind of pointless.

I prefer abstract Gods and Cthulian type gods myself.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Nah, you have to read the next page of the book to get the whole story. Regardless of what interpretation you put on her purpose for questioning whether they are gods, mortals did blow her up. All you need to do is cross the streams.

But did they kill her, or just destroy her avatar?

 

[Aust Diamondew]

That usually is the case in mythology. You can't keep a good god down long. Balder is the extreme case. But even he comes back. Eventually.

Balder only comes back after nearly every other god is dead, the world tree, all nine worlds, all men, giants etc.
So yes, Blader comes back but Odin, Thor, Freyr, Tyr etc do not.

That said I think only other gods or beings of equal power (world serpeants, really bad ass wolves, a giant hell hound) should be able to kill gods.
Maybe level 20 or level 30 PCs are beings of equal power (they certainly have god like power), I think this sort of thing should be left up to the DM to decide.

 

[PeterWeller]

But did they kill her, or just destroy her avatar?

They destroyed her Stay Puffed avatar, weakening her to the point where they could kill her, but only by crossing the streams.