The (new) Immortals Handbook Thread

[Fieari]

That's why Krust created this "Metamagic Freedom" feat, it seems to me. I might be reading into this too far, but from his description, it seems to me that it would looks something like this:

Feat: Metamagic Freedom
Prerequisits: Epic level (maybe others as well)
Benefit: You can stack a metamagic feat with itself once. Thus, you could use this feat to cast a doubly enlarged fireball for the appropriate spell level adjustment.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time it is taken, you may layer another level of metamagic onto the spell. For example, if you take Metamagic Freedom twice, you would be able to case a triply enlarged fireball.

Of couse, since I'm operating on WAY too little sleep right now, I'm sure Krust worded his text much better than I did, but you should be able to get the jist.

 

[Verequus]

Hey UK!

Look here for thread for another book about gods: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=126885 You like to read them, don't you?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Zoatebix mate!

I'd have to see how it plays out, but the concept looks really great. It's elegant, scalable, uses material people already know in a new way that suits epic and immortal -level play, and it reduces book keeping.

Exactly, its quick, simple and very easy to manage. Also it cuts down on a lot of book keeping, which is priority number one at epic levels.

Preparing a huge list of spells still looks like such a pain that I wouldn't want to do it, but at least you've made it less of a pain.

Picking spells from the book is easy enough. But its having to 'work out' appropriate spells + metamagic is a real soul-drainer.

Figuring 125 things out is less work than figuring 233 things out.

Yes but you can pick out even 125 spells in about 15 minutes, but try working out a hundred or more that have to be combined with metamagic and it is a chore like you wouldn't believe.

I'd still rather run a Sorceror (or maybe an alternate magic system - this is the one and only instance where I would miss the core metamagic system that AU/AE dropped in favor of better things) than a Wizard at that level just to make my life as a GM or player easier.

Indeed. Although I think this is the simple solution for scaling magic above 20th. When you see how quick and simple the alternate magics are you will love it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Are you saying that a 0-level spell with 24 level of metamagic is remotely similar to a 9th level spell?

No of course not, but I note you didn't say 1st-level spell...which is when the real magic begins anyway!

I don't care how empowered it is, ray of frost is not the spell I want to be casting at CR 66 opponents.

What about an x2 enhanced, x8 empowered shocking grasp for 125d6 electrical damage, thats off the top of my head without even considering min/max capabilities.

Also, by the rules in 3.5, you can't use the same metamagic feat on the same spell twice. This is the purpose behind +8 and +9 level metamagic feats in the EPH -- something has to make those 30th level spells.

Yes but with all due respect that rule is as flawed as the improved spell capacity feat and was designed by someone either with a thin grasp of epic gaming or a great love of book keeping.

But if it makes you feel any better I can always create a feat that lets you stack metamagic, although I have tested this application of metamagic and it holds up to ANY level...provided you don't use Improved Metamagic and Multispell feats.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari dude!

That's why Krust created this "Metamagic Freedom" feat, it seems to me.

No. I would use the original idea to specifically give you a free metamagic slot. Sort of like the Automatic [Quicken] Spell epic feat except that you would get +1 level of ANY metamagic.

I might be reading into this too far, but from his description, it seems to me that it would looks something like this:

Feat: Metamagic Freedom
Prerequisits: Epic level (maybe others as well)
Benefit: You can stack a metamagic feat with itself once. Thus, you could use this feat to cast a doubly enlarged fireball for the appropriate spell level adjustment.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time it is taken, you may layer another level of metamagic onto the spell. For example, if you take Metamagic Freedom twice, you would be able to case a triply enlarged fireball.

Of couse, since I'm operating on WAY too little sleep right now, I'm sure Krust worded his text much better than I did, but you should be able to get the jist.

Rebadged 'Improved Metamagic' this would work great as the feat of officialdom for jmuchiello.

Or perhaps I'll call this application Metamagic Freedom and the other Improved Metamagic Capacity or something like that.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK!

Hiya mate!

Look here for thread for another book about gods: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=126885 You like to read them, don't you?

Yes I have been waiting for this one for a while. Sounds good, although again they seem to be going the way of the avatar. So it seems targeted more to sub-epic gaming. One other thing is that they are covering much the same pantheons as D&Dg. But I'll still definately be getting it as soon as I see it.

 

[Sledge]

I really do like the metamagic freedom idea, however, my Epic character already has all the Auto whatever feats (all 9 even) plus has started into multispelling... Guess I'll have to do some converting to adapt to your stuff when it finally arrives. Will you offer any guidelines for conversion?

 

[poilbrun]

Hi UK!

Indeed, I did not understand correctly. I thought the caster would get spells from level 1 to 9, then 12 33rd-level slots. Even after you explained it correctly, I think the lowest level spell being 24th is a bit overkill. Why would I use a 125d6 shocking grasp on a CR2 Ogre when a 3rd-level 10d6 fireball will kill it anyway. Of course, against a creature with an appropriate CR, only the high-level metamagic spells will be useful, but for most envounters with non-epic NPC or monsters, spells from level 1 to 9, hell!, for that matter, from 10 to 22 too, can perfectly do the trick.

I find it strange, especially from you who advocate play between high-level characters and low-lewel NPC, that you would sacrifice normal spell levels.

On another matter, congrats to Liverpool for their victory on Juventus, too bad they can't seem to find a goalkeeper who doesn't make one stupid mistake in every Champions' League, especially when he's good enough to do saves likes others he did yesterday.

 

[Impeesa]

I would think it would be a trivial matter to add in that the caster may forego some or all of the increased effect if they choose.

--Impeesa--

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Sledge!

I really do like the metamagic freedom idea, however, my Epic character already has all the Auto whatever feats (all 9 even) plus has started into multispelling... Guess I'll have to do some converting to adapt to your stuff when it finally arrives. Will you offer any guidelines for conversion?

Well it seems a pretty straightforward feat swop.

Each Auto Quicken/Silent/Still Spell feat, each Improved Spell Capacity feat and each Multispell feat would be changed to:

Improved Metamagic Capacity.

...and if you wanted to stack metamagic take Metamagic Freedom as well.

So if you had the nine Auto feats and one Multispell. You could take nine Improved Metamagic Capacity and one Metamagic Freedom.

That way your spells would be 9th (formerly 0th) to 18th (formerly 9th). You could cast a maximised, x3 empowered Meteor Swarm for a potential 480 damage.