Terrance888
First Post
The new stuff is really cool. I approve!
D&D 4E The New Monster Math, Explained and Expanded
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
Glad to hear it!
Also, I can't think of an elegant way to scale lazy powers by caste.
Most certainly. I guess monster lazylords make me nervous because while the worst way a party can abuse lazy powers is with E-PCs with cheesed out basic attacks, a DM could really abuse them with elites and solos. Imagine an elite brute plus 8+ minions that all have even basic lazy powers. It would give a whole new meaning to the phrase "Take out the pawns first!"
Also, I can't think of an elegant way to scale lazy powers by caste.
Terrance888
First Post
Minion: Grants 1 Adjacent Ally Basic attack at -X to hit
Goon: Grants 1 Adjacent Ally Basic attack
Standard: Grants X Adjacent Allies Basic Attack or Grant 1 Ally next to attacked enemy
Elite: Grants All Adjacent allies wtihin (small range) Basic Attack
Solo: Do not need lazy lord attacks. They themselves are the lord.
Example?
Goon: Grants 1 Adjacent Ally Basic attack
Standard: Grants X Adjacent Allies Basic Attack or Grant 1 Ally next to attacked enemy
Elite: Grants All Adjacent allies wtihin (small range) Basic Attack
Solo: Do not need lazy lord attacks. They themselves are the lord.
Example?
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
The big problem is that the effectiveness of a lazy power is proportional to both the user and the target. For example, say a minion has a power which grants one ally an attack at a -5 penalty. That makes the math work out alright, assuming the target is a standard monster. But if the target is another minion, the power is just about useless; and if the target is a solo...well, it's still a swingy situation.
The only solution I can think of is something like "One ally makes an attack. If it's a minion, it gets a +5 attack bonus...yada yada...if it's a solo, it gets a -5 penalty." The modifiers would have to vary based on both the user's caste and the target's caste. And that's a stretch to make sense of, within the game fiction, as well as being kind of a nuisance.
Arlough
Explorer
Don't make it "Attack +/-X", make it something like "Target ally makes the following attack: +[lazy based number] vs. [appropriate defense]; Hit: [lazy based damage die and/or effect]"
Basically, treat it kinda like a alchemical attack where the leader determines all the stats, and make it a bit better to do that than for the leader in question to make the attack itself.
Or, to put it another way, have the leader make an attack as though it were standing where its target ally is standing.
This should work for minions through solos, and would be a cool power for the upper caste leaders while still being appropriately limiting for the lower caste leaders.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Basically, treat it kinda like a alchemical attack where the leader determines all the stats, and make it a bit better to do that than for the leader in question to make the attack itself.
Or, to put it another way, have the leader make an attack as though it were standing where its target ally is standing.
This should work for minions through solos, and would be a cool power for the upper caste leaders while still being appropriately limiting for the lower caste leaders.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
This. Is. Brilliant. So simple, so elegant. Brilliant!
Can't believe I didn't think of it.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Due to real-life issues, it took me a ridiculous long time before I could run another game.
I tried it and ... it made no difference. This is probably because my PCs (and therefore the monsters they face) are heroic level and so only have one recharge power. Only a few controllers might have had more than one recharge power, and they didn't face those.
The proposed house rules need to be tested at paragon level, or with some really complex monsters.
On an unrelated note, the PCs have been drained of surges twice. Took me only 8 levels (about 24 sessions) to figure out how to do this. PCs were reduced to 0 (the cleric!), 2 (fighter had Durable, so really 0), 2 and 5 (the paladin, who had used Lay on Hands 3/day due to a really high Wisdom score).
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
...Well that's anticlimactic! You couldn't have thrown in a few minionized great wyrms in there somewhere?
More seriously, I've been meaning to do some high level play testing but my attention has been elsewhere. *sigh*
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