The New Red-Box...

[Imaro]

Pretty steep for being a DM no?

Btw, is it me or have the pic of the redbox became Elmore's dragon? Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game)

Yeah, it's not just the pic on the box that changed... WotC is using the actual red box for the 80's and not the new essentials set as the art for this product. I wonder why...

Note: @Charwomangene... I also don't thinkthe Rules Compendium is part of the DM Kit, I believe it's a seperate product.

 

[Almacov]

Actually I think your prices for the DM Kit and Monster Vault are a little off... together they are $70. Below is the info that has been released about the essentials line so far...

Maybe so, but it looks like the product catalog entries have been updated a bit from the descriptions you listed there.

Dungeon Master's Kit

"Game components:

* 256-page book of rules and advice for Dungeon Masters
* Two 32-page adventures
* 2 sheets of die-cut monster tokens
* 2 double-sided battle maps
* Fold-out Dungeon Master’s screen"

Monster Vault

"Game components:

* 256-page book of monsters
* 32-page adventure
* 10 sheets of die-cut monster tokens"



The higher page counts suddenly make them look much jucier...

 

[M.L. Martin]

Yeah, it's not just the pic on the box that changed... WotC is using the actual red box for the 80's and not the new essentials set as the art for this product. I wonder why...

Actually, what they've done is used the original Red Box art, D&D logo and typeface but kept the WotC logo and the new text (It says "Starter Set" instead of "Basic Set" and uses the new blurb below the picture instead of the old one.)

If you going to go for nostalgia, might as well go all the way, I suppose. And it's one of the most iconic pieces of art ever created for D&D.

 

[Almacov]

Pretty steep for being a DM no?

Btw, is it me or have the pic of the redbox became Elmore's dragon? Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game)

Hah! I hadn't even noticed that. I think that's both awesome, and potentially a bad move. It's really, really discordant with 4e's current art style.
That said, maybe they're looking to shake things up in more ways than one.
The covers for the "Heroes of the-" books seem to have a somewhat different style than what we've grown accustomed to from 4e art.

It could be pretty neat for the Essentials books to have a somewhat distinct look from the rest of the line.

 

[tuxgeo]

This got kinda lost in the thread (in fact, only Tuxego has mentioned it), but the box set will allow people to start from commoner, and, by going through an adventure, choose their class depending on the choices that they make on the way.

FYI, the last three letters of "tuxgeo" are "GEO," not "EGO." (Not offended -- I acknowledge my egotism; and besides, I already saw the ". . .ego" spelling on usenet around 2004-2005, so it's no surprise.)

 

[mudbunny]

FYI, the last three letters of "tuxgeo" are "GEO," not "EGO." (Not offended -- I acknowledge my egotism; and besides, I already saw the ". . .ego" spelling on usenet around 2004-2005, so it's no surprise.)

Whoops, I fixed it. My apologies.

 

[tuxgeo]

Whoops, I fixed it. My apologies.

Unlax, Doc. No hu-hu. Brag a gear and chill. Or no, wait, that should be "grab a chilled beer and. . . ." Hmm. I think I just painted myself into a corner. I should learn to quit while I'm ahead.

 

[fanboy2000]

Seems strange that they don't want to advertise things like that publicly, and at the moment are busy hiding it behind their subscription only service.

I think they are, it's just on the product catalog page. The "inside scoop" is, apparently, behind a subscription wall, but the catalog page does a fairly good job of describing what it is.

It seems with this new line, WOTC is able to essentially release 4.5 edition without all the baggage that little decimal brings with it.

If the new rules compendium is full of errata/changes then the 4.5 move will be complete.

I agree. The buy-in for an experienced gamer who's new to 4e is now the rules compendium + the book your favorite class is in. People who don't want to play a PHB1 class can now save $15 and get errata too.

Not sure I would equate including errata to a .5 edition. There were some pretty fundamental changes from 3e to 3.5 that you wouldn't get with errata.

True, but I think it does much of the same job 3.5 did, without forcing a $90 buy in. (Possibly because errata isn't worth $90, given that it's free online!)

It's more profitable IF everybody wants a cheeseburger -- or if you've got a Marxist setup to make sure they get a cheeseburger anyway. Otherwise, "It comes in any color you want, so long as you want black" means losing a sale when someone else offers a real alternative.

You make a lot of good points, but I love the cheeseburger metaphor and I think there's something your missing from it: that there are a lot of successful companies that only offer a very small range of products. One good example is Chipotle, a fast food chain that specializes in burritos. Technically, they'll make anything you want if they have the ingredients. Which basically amounts to burritos, tacos, quesadillas, and a burrito bowl. Chipotle is successful not because of it's wide selection, but because the one thing they do sell is very popular.

Selling a small number of products can allow a business to focus their development on a few things that people really want and like, and not divide your attention between too many things. Of course, if I don't want a burrito, I don't go to Chipotle. So, it that respect they don't get my money, but somehow that hasn't seem to slowed their growth any.

 

[fanboy2000]

Buy in.

Right now, there are three ways I know of for a person to start getting into D&D 4e: 1) The starter game, 2) D&D 4e for Dummies, and 3) Keep on the Shadowfell.

The starter game has pre-generated characters. It was designed for people to graduate to the PHB1. It has tokens, tiles, and miniatures.

D&D 4e for Dummies is geared for players and contains all the side bars and extraneous info one gets in the Dummies line. It also doesn't have an adventure or any other equipment. The DMing 4e for Dummies doesn't have an adventure either, but does go over the one in the DMG1. The Dummies books seem to be geared for people like Shelly Mazzanoble who get invited to join a group of experienced, adult, players.

Keep on the Shadowfell is free, has pre-generated PCs, and a map. It also has quickstart rules.

If someone wants to go on from there, the buy in is whatever you paid for the starter set + the PHB1 + an additional book if thats where your class is.

What's missing is something that has character creation + equipment + errata. I think the new box set fits nicely. Also, the buy in becomes $40. (The price of the red box + the price of the player essentials guide.) That's 30 levels of entertainment. The PHB1 is $5 cheeper, but doesn't have errata or equipment.

The buy in for a new DM is, as is so common to me by now, more expensive. With the essentials, it's $60. That's $20 for the red box + $40 for the DM kit. That gives you a total of 3 adventures and a 256 page book on rules and advice. (The 4e DMG is 224 pages!) You also get dice and tokens. Not bad. The only problem that I see is that this doesn't seem to amount to 30 levels of play like the player buy in does. However, if they're smart, the two adventures in the DM kit will fill out the heroic tier. At that point, the new DM will have enough experience to either make his own adventures, or buy some.

Bill says he the essentials line will be the starting point for new D&D players. This seems to be the cumulation of "everything is core" motto of 4e marketing. Theoretically, these people could buy the Rules Compendium and play for years, through 30 levels and never touch the PHB1, DMG1, or MM1. And I suspect this won't be a theory in couple of years.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

And I suspect this won't be a theory in couple of years.

Especially when you add in DDI.

Yes, some of my facts were off. Good thing I removed the snark, eh? ;-)