The new Star Trek movie is...

[frankthedm]

The movie was great. Though young, the cast choices functioned very well, blurring lines of homage and parody. Glad they ditched a good amount of the morality messages that weighed down TOS.

The red beast looks like it leaped out of a Wayne Barlowe painting. Quite cool.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So i very very angrily must say i liked the movie...

Heh. It's not everyone who can go from bleak "This must not come to pass" rage, to "I liked it". Congratulations

Were there aspects in particular that managed to turn you around?

-Hyp.

 

[DonTadow]

Heh. It's not everyone who can go from bleak "This must not come to pass" rage, to "I liked it". Congratulations

Were there aspects in particular that managed to turn you around?

-Hyp.

I hated the direction. I don't think Abrhams can direct his way out of a paper bag. Shakey cam is all he seems capable of doing to relay action in a scene. That said, I think he's a very good writer.

Spoiler

About 3/4 way through the movie i wasn't impressed. Possibly because of all the coincidences. And then, when spock took the chair, i said to myself... ok now i get it. This movie is about destiny, about how things are meant to happen and that the universe makes sure it happens. And then I started to enjoy it. In the end I liked how it fit in a box right into contniuity.

At the end, i started loathing Nemesis, and how terrible they were with their own continuity in the star trek universe. This movie seemed to at least try while Nemesis did not.

Looking at Star Trek as both a sequel and prequel it works for me. How many origins of Wolverine and batman have we seen. So as an origin of the original cast I am cool with it. I can see every single epsiode of TOS coming after this movie.

 

[Darrell]

DonTadow, I have to say, I loved the movie; but I seem to have gotten exactly the opposite feel out of it. I saw it as necessary change to get out from under the thumb of the old continuity.

Spoiler

Watching Nero's ship be destroyed by the black hole, I saw the last vestiges of the entire past 'canon' (with the exception of 'old' Spock, who's apparently heading for the Vulcan colony) being erased.

The way I read it, new movies featuring the new cast are the future, and they're no longer tightly bound to any continuity established by past TV shows or movies. In fact, ST III is already changed, in that Spock cannot be returned to Vulcan (and even if we say that Spock's body and mind were reunited on the 'colony' Vulcan, Amanda won't be there to give him advice at the outset of ST IV).

The divergent timeline means that 'real world' matters can be written into the 'Trek world' situations, as well. Say, for instance, Karl Urban decides not to return after the next sequel. McCoy might be killed off, transferred to another ship, reassigned to a Starbase, or whatever; and a new doctor brought in. Nothing is set in stone anymore, and that, in my opinion, is a very good thing.

Regards,
Darrell

 

[DonTadow]

DonTadow, I have to say, I loved the movie; but I seem to have gotten exactly the opposite feel out of it. I saw it as necessary change to get out from under the thumb of the old continuity.

Spoiler

Watching Nero's ship be destroyed by the black hole, I saw the last vestiges of the entire past 'canon' (with the exception of 'old' Spock, who's apparently heading for the Vulcan colony) being erased.

The way I read it, new movies featuring the new cast are the future, and they're no longer tightly bound to any continuity established by past TV shows or movies. In fact, ST III is already changed, in that Spock cannot be returned to Vulcan (and even if we say that Spock's body and mind were reunited on the 'colony' Vulcan, Amanda won't be there to give him advice at the outset of ST IV).

The divergent timeline means that 'real world' matters can be written into the 'Trek world' situations, as well. Say, for instance, Karl Urban decides not to return after the next sequel. McCoy might be killed off, transferred to another ship, reassigned to a Starbase, or whatever; and a new doctor brought in. Nothing is set in stone anymore, and that, in my opinion, is a very good thing.

Regards,
Darrell

Spoiler

But the key to this movie is how destiny happens regardless. It migh t be someone else giving advice and it might be him returning the the colony but it does happen. If one thing abram did say was that it doesn't neccessary mess with the continuity, and that's a good thing. Whether you like it or not, star trek has a history and, as tng and deepspace nine proved, can be skillfully written with or, as htis movie proved, can be skillfully written around.

The one thing I liked was that those who stayed with enterprise, this was explained, time will fix itself. Unless the universe is so screwed up like with the opposite universe .

I don't think the "thumb" of cannon is what tanked Nemiesis and Insserection. It was the horrid of writing. Things will still lead to tng and deeps space nine, and all of those old stories will still happen, but now their will be new ones to set time right. True peoplemight die, some might live, but the important events that time is set on will occur. In the car ride home, I thought about a scenerio where this enterprise could encounter the borg or have fight to the death with the klingons or for that matter that prison planet could have been where worf's grand father was stationed or any number of things.

 

[DonTadow]

If I had to hazard a guess...it was for the "F-bomb" in the lyrics to the Beastie Boys "Sabotage" song that was played during a particular scene. I think that does an "automatic PG-13" for it. While I didn't notice it at all during the movie, subsequent commentary on various message boards seems to indicate that was part of the lyrics.

Nah, it was definitely the silhouette of kirk and the green chick because it looked like they were having sex for a brief second until the lights came on and you found ut they were just in their skimpies. (thus the briefness). Also in that scenes Uhura begins to strip which is the focus of the camera.

 

[Pbartender]

But the key to this movie is how destiny happens regardless. It migh t be someone else giving advice and it might be him returning the the colony but it does happen.

It reminds of the idea of "temporal inertia" that you run across now and again in science fiction...

The idea is that any given event in time has a certain amount of "inertia", depending on how significant that event is to the timeline. Small events, like what you ate for breakfast or what shirt you wear today, have little inertia--they are easy to change and have practically no effect on future events. Big events however, like assassination of Julius Ceasar or the attack on Pearl Harbor, have a lot of inertia--they are very diffcult to change and will have a BIG impact on subsequant history if you do manage to change them.

It's a sort of pseudo-scientific version of destiny that works well in the context of Star Trek.

 

[Umbran]

So i very very angrily must say i liked the movie and that it fits perfectly in with continuity, to the point where the universe was obviously fixing itself.

There is a simpler solution than the one you propose:

Spoiler

Given the highly unstable nature of the results of the Genesis Device, I doubt Spock will use that - he's already said he's found a colony world.

As for the temporal issues, this is nicely set up.
Either:
1)This really is an completely alternate timeline. Many-Worlds-style, the old timeline still exists, and if they want to play in it, they can. This is the most likely, as the current situation is highly paradoxical. With Vulcan destroyed, the Vulcan Science Academy cannot build the ship that tries to save Romulus. So, the reason and method for Nero's time travel does not exist in the new continuity.

Or:
2)Spock writes down everything he knows about the original continuity, and the deviation from original timeline (which is considerable). Assume that while there's been changes in Federation development, the stars themselves don't give a hoot - Romulus will still be destroyed in this timeline. In 120-someodd years, they either stop that from happening, or evacuate Romulus in time, so that Nero has no reason to go back in time and cause the branching. This results in a temporary 120+ year loop of divergent continuity they can play in until they decide (if ever) to restore the original.

As for temporal inertia - I find it... extremely hard to believe that Kirk/Spock/Enterprise has more inertia than several billions of people lost on Vulcan. Nero's actions can destroy a world, but the crew has too much inertia to disrupt? I don't buy that.

And let us not get into the Temporal Prime Directive. Things get messy

 

[DonTadow]

There is a simpler solution than the one you propose:

Spoiler

Given the highly unstable nature of the results of the Genesis Device, I doubt Spock will use that - he's already said he's found a colony world.

As for the temporal issues, this is nicely set up.
Either:
1)This really is an completely alternate timeline. Many-Worlds-style, the old timeline still exists, and if they want to play in it, they can. This is the most likely, as the current situation is highly paradoxical. With Vulcan destroyed, the Vulcan Science Academy cannot build the ship that tries to save Romulus. So, the reason and method for Nero's time travel does not exist in the new continuity.

Or:
2)Spock writes down everything he knows about the original continuity, and the deviation from original timeline (which is considerable). Assume that while there's been changes in Federation development, the stars themselves don't give a hoot - Romulus will still be destroyed in this timeline. In 120-someodd years, they either stop that from happening, or evacuate Romulus in time, so that Nero has no reason to go back in time and cause the branching. This results in a temporary 120+ year loop of divergent continuity they can play in until they decide (if ever) to restore the original.

As for temporal inertia - I find it... extremely hard to believe that Kirk/Spock/Enterprise has more inertia than several billions of people lost on Vulcan. Nero's actions can destroy a world, but the crew has too much inertia to disrupt? I don't buy that.

And let us not get into the Temporal Prime Directive. Things get messy

Spoiler

This is starting to look like an FBI report on alien life.

But, the intertia thing proved true the entire movie. The coincidences were noted slighly by the old spock and during the conversation with the new spock. Also note the several people in the movie who told kirk how important he is (including nero, old spock and captain pike). Kirk is a fixed intertia point, more important than romulus. I say that because you see 6 billion people on one planet, i see trillions of people kirk saved across the universe including the entire federation ten to twenty times over.

By the time we get to that point in history, history would have fixed it so there is a science vessal with spock and nero. And whether you like hte temperal directive or not, if this is the star trek universe we must believe that the timeline stays in tact. I'm 100 percent sure that nero's ship would have been destroyed immediately.

 

[kenmarable]

Question for those who have seen it: The only way I will get to go this weekend is if I drag the younglings along (4yo and 6yo). Anything too horrid? They love all the star wars movies/superhero movies so big action is not a problem.

I have found this site extremely useful in deciding what movies are ok with kids.

It gives a 0 to 10 rating of sex, violence, and language, plus lists actual incidents. That can be a bit spoilery, although it typically sticks with basic descriptions "A man is crushed under a crumbling stone statue (we see the man disappear underneath)." rather than getting into any story stuff. (Oh, and don't worry, the link above only goes to the home page, not the Star Trek detail page.)

For sex, yeah, as they said it's just a couple making out in their underwear. For violence, there's no blood or anything like that, but it can be a bit intense. Like you get a real feel for "hull breach" like they haven't shown before with someone clinging to a bulkhead screaming then suddenly being sucked into a silent vacuum bouncing off a phaser array. And several insta-deaths "man + column of flame = man gone" sort of stuff.

But if they are fine with that kind of action, go for it. A family we know brought their 6 & 8 year olds and they loved it. After seeing it, we're thinking of taking our kids now (but are debating our youngest since she gets really worried in stressful action sequences).