The older i get the less I need.

[Doc_Klueless]

Same. Moving every 5-10 years reminds you of how much stuff you have. A lot of it collecting dust.

It’s way I buy digital games and movies now and have been ebaying everything I don’t use.

My RPG collection has shrunk drastically.

I'm currently entering my empty nest phase as my child moves out and on. Going through closets I have discovered gaming stuff I didn't even remember that I had!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Mostly agreed on both counts. Regarding disadvantages, my preference these days lean toward having them provide metacurrency when triggered rather than build points on creation. This stops fishing for points that give you the most bang for the buck, and instead rewards you when your disadvantages actually makes things interesting by causing problems.

In principal, I'm not averse to this approach, but I've yet to see a version of it that factors intensity in, and not just frequency, and until I do I'll consider it substandard (its not hard to come up with ways to do that, but no one has actually done so "in the field" that I've seen).

As for effects-based powers, I see both the pros and cons. They definitely belong in supers games, where characters tend to have unique powers with common effects – both Jubilee and Dazzler can blind and confuse opponents, but one does it by creating plasmoid fireworks and the other by converting sound to light. So it makes sense that you could build both as a "Blind" power with different add-ons. And in that context, I'm also OK with limitations providing discounts.

But in fantasy games, I prefer pre-made spells – ideally with a touch of oddness. One of my favorite examples is the Exalted equivalent of comprehend languages: The Eye and the Mouth. This spell summons a disembodied eye and mouth, which can read a text for you and translate it. But they'll only translate any text once (possibly per character), and they will only read it straight through – you can ask them to pause, but not to go back.

The issue is that intrinsically backs you into only using it for campaigns where the magic system structure matches the setting, or building settings around the magic system. You can do a bunch of them (the latter-day GURPS approach which is at least better than the 1st and 2nd edition business of trying for one-size-fits all--D&D can get away with that because no one really seriously thinks of it as a generic system in the first place, but GURPS has that "G" hanging there right on the front) but you're still going to have things fall in the cracks. And that's if all you're using it for is fantasy.

 

[Riquez]

I recently went through a move of house, and in the process I eliminated 90% of my physical RPG collection.

How about you? How do you feel about the amount of stuff you feel like you need to be happy in the hobby?

My parents threw out all my RPG stuff in the late 90's when i left home & they moved house.
In the last 8 years ive got back into RPGs & rediscovered my old passions for it.

I feel like I wasted a lot of my life by spending time on pointless work instead of valuable fantasy.

Now its costing me more to get back the stuff that meant a lot to me.

 

[Staffan]

In principal, I'm not averse to this approach, but I've yet to see a version of it that factors intensity in, and not just frequency, and until I do I'll consider it substandard (its not hard to come up with ways to do that, but no one has actually done so "in the field" that I've seen).

I mean, you could vary the "payout" based on how intense the issue is. Troubleshooters does that with its Complications (which are mostly under PC control). For example, someone with Criminal Background could get 3 story points for having the cops turn up during an inopportune moment and start asking questions, or to get a penalty to social tasks because people recognize you and get wary; or they could get 6 story points for being detained by the police for a scene.

The issue is that intrinsically backs you into only using it for campaigns where the magic system structure matches the setting, or building settings around the magic system. You can do a bunch of them (the latter-day GURPS approach which is at least better than the 1st and 2nd edition business of trying for one-size-fits all--D&D can get away with that because no one really seriously thinks of it as a generic system in the first place, but GURPS has that "G" hanging there right on the front) but you're still going to have things fall in the cracks. And that's if all you're using it for is fantasy.

True, but I feel magic systems should mostly be bespoke for the setting anyway.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I mean, you could vary the "payout" based on how intense the issue is. Troubleshooters does that with its Complications (which are mostly under PC control). For example, someone with Criminal Background could get 3 story points for having the cops turn up during an inopportune moment and start asking questions, or to get a penalty to social tasks because people recognize you and get wary; or they could get 6 story points for being detained by the police for a scene.

That's exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. The problem is that a lot of the games that take the general approach have their metacurrency in such big chunky pieces that they really don't want to do that (M&M comes to mind here). But without it, it loses more nuance than I'm willing to accept.

True, but I feel magic systems should mostly be bespoke for the setting anyway.

But effect based systems are a method of building a bespoke magic system. That's the point; without something like that, you're stuck either building one completely from the ground up (which I'm going to question most GM's are up to doing) or using something already canned.

 

[Staffan]

But effect based systems are a method of building a bespoke magic system. That's the point; without something like that, you're stuck either building one completely from the ground up (which I'm going to question most GM's are up to doing) or using something already canned.

Most effects-based systems I've seen have left most of the building up to the user – sometimes in advance, sometimes at runtime. I can't remember seeing one that expected the GM/setting designer to build a hundred spells/powers from scratch using the LEGOs the system provided.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Most effects-based systems I've seen have left most of the building up to the user – sometimes in advance, sometimes at runtime. I can't remember seeing one that expected the GM/setting designer to build a hundred spells/powers from scratch using the LEGOs the system provided.

Most bespoke magic systems outside D&D don't have a hundred spells in their spell system anyway. In an effect based system, once you've constructed the framework of how spells will look (the mandatory limitations and potentially advantages they work under, and maybe some meta-design choices you do right out the gate) its not like putting a new spell together that still fits with the rest of it is painful. Heck, its often more consistent than a lot of bespoke spell systems do with their spells given how ad-hoc the spell design process is.

 

[Gorgon Zee]

Most bespoke magic systems outside D&D don't have a hundred spells in their spell system anyway. In an effect based system, once you've constructed the framework of how spells will look (the mandatory limitations and potentially advantages they work under, and maybe some meta-design choices you do right out the gate) its not like putting a new spell together that still fits with the rest of it is painful. Heck, its often more consistent than a lot of bespoke spell systems do with their spells given how ad-hoc the spell design process is.

Yup, that is also my experience. I used a system for Fate that had a few simple rules for magic

• Create an aspect for yourself that is supernatural; it should be at about the “street level” power ability.
• As for any aspect, it is then a fact and all logical consequences follow from it
• Each magical aspect is tied to a skill. It can be used with that skill at no cost.
• Using a magical aspect with a skill that it is not tied to requires a spend.

So, a character had the aspect “I can turn into a cloud of mist”, tied to stealth. Anytime it was reasonable to assume mist might be around, they automatically succeeded at stealth — no-one will notice a patch of mist on a misty day! But if they wanted to smother someone in mist, or swarm up the side of a building, they would have to spend.

Worked very nicely. Tying the aspect to a skill makes it more focused and helped me as a GM know the expected use of the magic.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yup, that is also my experience. I used a system for Fate that had a few simple rules for magic

• Create an aspect for yourself that is supernatural; it should be at about the “street level” power ability.
• As for any aspect, it is then a fact and all logical consequences follow from it
• Each magical aspect is tied to a skill. It can be used with that skill at no cost.
• Using a magical aspect with a skill that it is not tied to requires a spend.

So, a character had the aspect “I can turn into a cloud of mist”, tied to stealth. Anytime it was reasonable to assume mist might be around, they automatically succeeded at stealth — no-one will notice a patch of mist on a misty day! But if they wanted to smother someone in mist, or swarm up the side of a building, they would have to spend.

Worked very nicely. Tying the aspect to a skill makes it more focused and helped me as a GM know the expected use of the magic.

That's something a bit different from what I'm talking about: on-the-fly magic. The challenge for that one is always going to be how detailed the system is in other ways; Fate has the advantage here that its intrinsically broad-strokes, so you rarely need to fit an effect into the game mechanics in a detailed way. Of course you have to be good with the system being broad strokes to find that okay.

 

[aramis erak]

That's something a bit different from what I'm talking about: on-the-fly magic. The challenge for that one is always going to be how detailed the system is in other ways; Fate has the advantage here that its intrinsically broad-strokes, so you rarely need to fit an effect into the game mechanics in a detailed way. Of course you have to be good with the system being broad strokes to find that okay.

The worst case for me was someone with a very un-bounded VPP in Fantasy Hero for HSR 4. Every use was presaged by a couple minutes of number crunching.