D&D General The Player's Quantum Ogre: Warlock Pacts

[cranberry]

What is the obligations for being a sorcerer? A bard? A wizard? Why do those classes get their power duty free? What responsibilities do monks and barbarians have? Why do some classes get micromanaged by the DM and others can thumb their noses and keep their powers.

I don't know. Maybe ask WoTC?

 

[Remathilis]

I don't know. Maybe ask WoTC?

The answer is None. So we are arbitrarily punishing some classes and not others.

You want to revamp the classes so that every fighter is a vassal for his Lord, every rogue gives a cut to the local thieves guild, or every bard is under contract from her manager, I'll buy the whole God micromanaging clerics and warlocks forced to serve their patron.

 

[Scribe]

So I'm curious for those who think 'punishment' of any kind is just a bridge too far.

Is this too onerous?

Specifically "Do this thing, if you do, you gain a benefit meta currency, if you do not, you give a negative meta currency to the DM."

 

[Voadam]

Another pact magic model is something like the 3.5 binder from Tome of Magic who makes a daily pact from a variety of vestiges for powers for a day. Mechanically you make a check for the pact to see if you are in complete control or whether the vestige has influence on you. The various vestiges each have defined motivations for if they have influence while their pact is in operation and the pact powers are ongoing with roleplaying prompts and they can demand actions of the binder which the binder can ignore at the cost of ongoing penalties.

INFLUENCE
This element details the influence that the vestige imposes on a binder who makes a poor pact. The vestige’s influence constantly affects the binder’s personality and emotions. In addition, the vestige might require that the binder take (or refrain from taking) some action. A binder who ignores the wishes of a vestige that influences him takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks until the vestige leaves.

for an example here is the influence of the Acererak vestige:

Influence: As a vestige, Acererak possesses the immortality he desired but none of the power that should accompany it. If you fall under his influence, you evince a strong hunger for influence and primacy. If you are presented with an opportunity to fill a void in power over a group of creatures, Acererak requires that you attempt to seize that power. You might impersonate a missing city official, take command of a leaderless unit of soldiers, or even grab the reins of runaway horses to establish your supremacy.

 

[Remathilis]

So I'm curious for those who think 'punishment' of any kind is just a bridge too far.

Is this too onerous?

View attachment 416236

Specifically "Do this thing, if you do, you gain a benefit meta currency, if you do not, you give a negative meta currency to the DM."

I'm far better with that sort of give and take over the "do what I say or you lose your class abilities".

 

[Aldarc]

Well, that sounds amazing. Is Invisible Sun available on Drivethru?

I'm going to say in advance that the game probably isn't for you. (1) It's by Monte Cook Games, based partially on their Cypher System, so it has the sort of meta-currency that could trigger your simulationist sensibilities. (2) It's a weird surrealistic urban fantasy setting, where our world is the fake world and the game setting is the actual world. (3) Also, it's a bit of doozy, being something of a notoriously pricey premium product. The Invisible Sun box is $287. The PDF of the contents is $87. There is, however, a free preview.

Moreover, I would also argue that the game is a bit too Byzantine for my tastes. It hides a lot of its game behind a bunch of needlessly wordy text and terms. It's a good game, but it's still a case of style over substance.

 

[TwoSix]

Also, D&D 5e wants every spellcaster to use the same spell system, even if the spells and interactions differ.

The Goetic is just one "class" in Invisible Sun. There is also the Vance, which does Vancian spell-casting. There is the Weaver that combines tags together to create a spell. There is also the Maker that approaches magic like an engineer with schematics. There are also Apostates who reject these orders and basically dabble. So even in Invisible Sun, it's not just the Goetic doing its thing. Every order has its own unique magic system.

Sounds fun. I'm a fan of games in general with asymmetrical play models.

 

[Voadam]

Well, that sounds amazing. Is Invisible Sun available on Drivethru?

Yes, but it is a 1,000 page $100 PDF.

 

[Scribe]

I'm going to say in advance that the game probably isn't for you. (1) It's by Monte Cook Games, based partially on their Cypher System, so it has the sort of meta-currency that could trigger your simulationist sensibilities. (2) It's a weird surrealistic urban fantasy setting, where our world is the fake world and the game setting is the actual world. (3) Also, it's a bit of doozy, being something of a notoriously pricey premium product. The Invisible Sun box is $287. The PDF of the contents is $87. There is, however, a free preview.

Moreover, I would also argue that the game is a bit too Byzantine for my tastes. It hides a lot of its game behind a bunch of needlessly wordy text and terms. It's a good game, but it's still a case of style over substance.

Looks really cool, but much to rich for my blood at this point.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The answer is None. So we are arbitrarily punishing some classes and not others.

You want to revamp the classes so that every fighter is a vassal for his Lord, every rogue gives a cut to the local thieves guild, or every bard is under contract from her manager, I'll buy the whole God micromanaging clerics and warlocks forced to serve their patron.

Again, the explanation (of which you are well aware) uses a metric that isn't apparently a priority to you, at least in this case. For others it is.