The "Price That Magic Item" Game!

evilbob said:
Mostly, I'm still thinking of anyone who has, at any time, been dropped next to a monster, and then healed back above zero before the creature was dead (or far enough away not to reach you anymore). Getting back up is a hard thing to do, because no matter what you do - unless you stick to fighting from the floor - you're gonna get whacked. And odds are, if you just woke up from being put under 0 HP, you cannot afford to get whacked. It's an extremely dangerous situation (low HP + prone) that happens often enough to warrant purchasing measures to protect against it. Getting up as a swift action is nice, but getting up without an AoO is unbelievably good. It's TOTALLY worth 10 skill points + 600g for any class.

This kind of usefulness goes up exponentially for classes who already can afford to (and might anyway) put ranks in balance - like monks and rogues. Monks in particular have great access to good tripping abilities, and if they are tripped in return, they get a free "nevermind - I get to continue my full attack action while standing!" once per round. Same with spiked-chain fighters: once per round, don't drop your weapon; just fall and stand up as a swift action! No harm, no foul.

Who cares about the Dex->Jump thing - you could easily leave that out and the item is still worth over 6000g to me. I'll take five and give four to my friends! :)


That said, it seems from the Design and Development article linked to earlier in this thread that the entire point of the new MIC is basically: to make items cheaper so that everyone will actually buy them. This makes a lot of sense, actually, and its a concept that I can agree with, especially having read the arguments put forth in the article. I still think this particular item is far too cheap for how amazing it is, but overall I'd say the direction they are going with magic items - i.e. what if we make it so that someone will actually consider purchasing them - is a good one.
Keep in mind also that in campaign where Rogues are common and the Rogues use tactics like Grease to get infinite free Sneak Attacks on everyone who doesn't have 5 ranks in Balance (if you don't have 5 ranks, you lose Dex bonus to AC while balancing, even if the DC is absurdly easy like Grease), people might be grabbing those ranks cross-class anyway to save themselves.
 

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evilbob said:
Getting up as a swift action is nice, but getting up without an AoO is unbelievably good. It's TOTALLY worth 10 skill points + 600g for any class.

Or it's worth nothing to me, because I house ruled that stupid rule back to 3.0. ;)
 

GROUP TWO "THINGS FOR YOUR WAIST"

1) Belt of Battle - Constant +2 competence bonus to initiative. Also, 3 charges per day, renewed at dawn, expendable as swift action as follows: 1 charge = 1 extra move action, 2 charges = extra standard action, 3 charges = extra full round action.
2) Belt of Growth - 1 x day, standard (command) action to gain enlarge person on self for 10 minutes or until commanded to end by you. Does not stack with any other effect that increases your size.
3) Desperation Chain - 1 x day activate chain as an immediate action as you are being rendered helpless (such as pinned, paralyzed, dropped to -1 of fewer hit points, etc..). When activated, you can cast a single arcane spell of 3rd level or lower without spending an additional action to do so. This expends the prepared spell or spell slot as if you had cast the spell. The chosen spell must have a casting time no longer than 1 full round. Casting it requires no verbal or somatic components, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but it still requires material components or focus and XP costs. The spell you cast takes effect after the effect that rendered you helpless, so it cannot prevent that effect, though it could neutralize or reverse it. You must wear the chain for 24 hours before you can access it's abilities, and if removed it becomes inactive until worn again for an additional 24 hours.
4) Healing Belt - Constant +2 competence bonus to heal checks. Also, 3 charges a day a standard (command) action, spendable to heal damage with a touch, or harm undead with a touch, as follows: 1 charge 2d8 damage, 2 charges 3d8 damage, 3 charges 4d8 damage.
5) Belt of One Mighty Blow - 1 x a day switft action, increases damage you do on next melee attack made before the end of your turn. Light weapon does +1d8, one-handed does +2d6, and two-handed does +3d6.
6) Cord of Favor - Constant +5 competence bonus to sense motive. Also, 3 x day standard (command) action to sacrifice a divine spell slot of 1st level or higher to use divine favor using your own caster level or that of the cord (6th level), whichever is higher.
7) Belt of Ultimate Athleticism - Swift action as often as you wish, can take 10 on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim checks made in that round, even under stress. Also, 1 x day swift action to treat next balance, climb, jump or swim check attempt as if you had rolled a 20.
8) Belt of the Wide Earth - Constant carrying capacity doubled. Also 2 x day as standard (mental) action you can sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot of 5th level or higher to use teleport (as the spell) using your own caster level or that of the belt (9th) whichever is higher.
9) Belt of Priestly Might - Features a deity's holy symbol. Followers of that deity, or anyone of that deity's alignment, can wear safely. Others receive one negative level while wearing belt. While wearing belt, gain +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor, and +2 enhancement bonus to strength.
10) Silkslick Belt - Constant ability to attempt escape artist check to escape from a grapple or pin as a move action instead of a standard action. Also, 1 x day as swift (mental) action can activate and gain +10 competence bonus on next escape artist check you bgein before the end of your next turn.
 
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1. Belt of battle: extra actions are always great. 20000 gp.

2. Belt of growth: enlarge self is also good. 5000 gp.

3. Desperation chain: I can't think of many 3rd level spells that would actually be that helpful if you're helpless or pinned. Maybe fireball on the guy pinning you might be a good way to take the both of you out. Depending on interpretation, a shield that blocks the attack that takes you to -1 could also be used, but I don't think it's kosher. 7000 gp.

4. Healing belt: kinda boring, but someone's gotta do it. 5000 gp.

5. Belt of one mighty blow: nice at low levels, eventually becomes insignificant. 5000 gp.

6. Cord of favor: the competence bonus sets a floor on the price. Div favor is okay, but the standard action makes it less attractive. 3000 gp.

7. Belt of ultimate athleticism: cool for stunting, but these types of checks eventually become obsolete as people start flying/teleporting everywhere. And you'll run out of swift actions eventually. 10000 gp.

8. Belt of the wide earth: who cares about the carrying capacity, it's the teleport. 25000 gp.

9. Belt of priestly might: the deity/alignment limitation is not important. +1 nat armor and +2 Str = 6000 gp.

10. Silkslick belt: nifty for escaping grapples, assuming you have Escape Artist ranks to start with. Which, IME, isn't a lot of people. 5000 gp.
 

Mistwell said:
1) Belt of Battle - Constant +2 competence bonus to initiative. Also, 3 charges per day, renewed at dawn, expendable as swift action as follows: 1 charge = 1 extra move action, 2 charges = extra standard action, 3 charges = extra full round action.

The +2 to initiative is probably worth about 1,000 gp.

The second ability is made of dreams. Dreams aren't quantifiable.

2) Belt of Growth - 1 x day, standard (command) action to gain enlarge person on self for 10 minutes or until commanded to end by you. Does not stack with any other effect that increases your size.

By my calculations, a 1st level spell 1/day is worth 360 gp. I think enlarge person is really powerful, though, so I'll bump it to 500 gp.

3) Desperation Chain - 1 x day activate chain as an immediate action as you are being rendered helpless (such as pinned, paralyzed, dropped to -1 of fewer hit points, etc..). When activated, you can cast a single arcane spell of 3rd level or lower without spending an additional action to do so. This expends the prepared spell or spell slot as if you had cast the spell. The chose spell must have a casting time no longer than 1 full round. Casting it requires no verbal or somatic components, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but it still requires material components or focus and XP costs. The spell you cast takes effect after the effect that rendered you helpless, so it cannot prevent that effect, though it could neutralize or reverse it. You must wear the chain for 24 hours before you can access it's abilities, and if removed it becomes active until worn again for an additional 24 hours.

That's a neat item. A nice revenge fireball for a BBEG or a dispel magic at an opportune time to get rid of a paralysis effect. A bard can cure himself to get back up again, I guess, as well. I'm not sure. Buying this is basically saying "I'm going down soon" and nobody wants to say that. 1000 gp?

4) Healing Belt - Constant +2 competence bonus to heal checks. Also, 3 charges a day a standard (command) action, spendable to heal damage with a touch, or harm undead with a touch, as follows: 1 charge 2d8 damage, 2 charges 3d8 damage, 3 charges 4d8 damage.

Not too shabby. 1,500 gp is about the cost of a 1/day cure spell that is whatever that 4d8 one is. It has added flexibility as it can heal more if you just use one charge at a time, but that's a luxury I can't see happening too often, however it doesn't gain the + caster level of the actual spell. I'll drop it down to 1,200 gp.

5) Belt of One Mighty Blow - 1x switft action, increases damage you do on next melee attack made before the end of your turn. Light weapon does +1d8, one-handed does +2d6, and two-handed does +3d6.

At will? +3d6 untyped damage to your best attack every round? Untyped damage is king of high level games where everybody and his brother has 10 resistance to every energy type (or is just flat out immune). 6,000 gp 40,000 gp. I know it sucks that the lightweights have to pay for the big 2H bonus, but thems the breaks.



6) Cord of Favor - Constant +5 competence bonus to sense motive. Also, 3 x day standard (command) action to sacrifice a divine spell slot of 1st level or higher to use divine favor using your own caster level or that of the cord (6th level), whichever is higher.

Not too bad for low level clerics, and even the bonus to sense motive isn't bad, since its an opposed roll. Good to wear around town. Being able to drop spells for divine favor is pretty neat, too. The sense motive comes out to 2,500 gp, and I'd probably price the drop spell thingy at about 3,000 gp. Seems too steep, though, added together. 4,000 gp. Still looks high, but I'd have to see it in play.


7) Belt of Ultimate Athleticism - Swift action as often as you wish, can take 10 on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim checks made in that round, even under stress. Also, 1 x day swift action to treat next balance, climb, jump or swim check attempt as if you had rolled a 20.

I'm actually more impressed by the first ability than the second. Yeah a 20 once a day is flashy, but the ability to always know you'll make the check or not is better. 8,000 gp.

8) Belt of the Wide Earth - Constant carrying capacity doubled. Also 2 x day as standard (mental) action you can sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot of 5th level or higher to use teleport (as the spell) using your own caster level or that of the belt (9th) whichever is higher.

The first ability is decent. The second is also decent. You won't have to prepare teleport just in case. It's also very nice for sorcerers. Still, overall, there are better items to wear. Like that healing belt up there. I'll give it a 1,000 gp cost.

9) Belt of Priestly Might - Features a deity's holy symbol. Followers of that deity, or anyone of that deity's alignment, can wear safely. Others receive one negative level while wearing belt. While wearing belt, gain +1 enhancement bonus to natural armor, and +2 enhancement bonus to strength.

2,000 gp for the natural armor, and 4,000 gp for the strength bonus. I don't like math, so I'll just add them together for 6,000 gp.

10) Silkslick Belt - Constant ability to attempt escape artist check to escape from a grapple or pin as a move action instead of a standard action. Also, 1 x day as swift (mental) action can activate and gain +10 competence bonus on next escape artist check you bgein before the end of your next turn.

Darn grappling monsters! 5,000 gp.
 
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1) 100,000 gold. This is underpricing the ridiculous ability granted by this belt, but based on the crazy Boots that were similar, the book is probably going to charge like 5000 for this :(. Oh Wizards, why do you keep giving back 3.0 Haste when you know it breaks the game. For the likely MIC price, this item is not only banned in my game, it is double-banned, whatever that means! For my price, I would allow it.

2) 2k 1/day 10th-level Enlarge Person, reduced a bit for taste

3) 5k, highly useful if it comes up--would be more without the attuning, but attuning to this means you give up that slot on the assumption that you're going down.

4) 4500--a bit better than +5 to heal coupled with CLW 4/day due to the ability to put out lots of healing at once, if not as much overall by 4.

5) 4000--even once a day, this adds a fairly massive (at low levels) +3d6 damage to your 2-handed attack, so more than 10 on average. It is a bit annoying that the damage is so much higher for a two-hander, since it absolutely must be priced based on that.

6) 4000--2500 for Sense Motive, 1500 for the ability to swap out for Divine Favour thrice a day

7) 15000--This is pretty darn good for someone who can use it--it's like the Swashbuckler's Acrobatic Skill Mastery ability ,which is fairly high level + the 20 once a day

8) 25000--The price would go down by a massive amount if they had been smarter, like the writer of the Cord of Favour and required the sacrifice of an arcane spell to prevent the divines from abusing this to obviate the need for Travel domain. As is, you usually don't need Teleport too much more than twice a day, and this lets Druids, Clerics, etc (plus Sorcerers who didn't take Teleport) cast the spell too.

9) 6000 gp--the price of the two benefits. If they give a discount for the restriction, they are being the stupidest I have seen them in this entire book, and that includes underpricing the Quicksilver Boots by over 10x. Giving a discount for crafting an item for a restriction is moronic--it actually makes the item better because your enemies can't use it, and it doesn't hurt you at all, so why not just put on twenty useless restrictions so only you can use it? If they add price for the restriction, that is acceptable.

10) 4000--1/10th of a Ring of Freedom of Movement.
 
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ThirdWizard said:
At will? +3d6 untyped damage to your best attack every round? Untyped damage is king of high level games where everybody and his brother has 10 resistance to every energy type (or is just flat out immune). 40,000 gp. I know it sucks that the lightweights have to pay for the big 2H bonus, but thems the breaks.

Not at will, 1 x a day.
 



1) Belt of Battle - Extra actions? Oh yeah. And it's not like this slot is vital for spellcasters. This is going to be a must-have for high level spellcasters unless we price it high enough. 50,000 gp, which is a fair chunk of even high level change.

2) Belt of Growth - Nice, but you could just buy a lot of potions of Enlarge Person and be able to use more than one a day. Keeping in mind we're deliberately pricing a bit low so people will actually buy this stuff, let's call it 1250 gp.

3) Desperation Chain - This is a cut-rate contingency, and the 3rd level imitation helps mitigate potential abuse. Call it a nice 1500 gp. (Same price as a Contingency focus.)

4) Healing Belt - 4d8+0 is only and average of 18 points of healing. Would you rather have this, or a +3 shield? The shield. Would you rather have this, or a +2 shield? Likely the shield. A +1 shield? This is more useful. So, 3500 gp.

5) Belt of One Mighty Blow - Okay, optimal usage scenario. You're spiritied charging with a lance and multiplying your bonus damage by x3. Let's call this one a cool 10,000. As pointed out, you can't multiply these bonus dice. I'm going to drop this to 3500 gp.

6) Cord of Favor - As was pointed out, Sense Motive is an opposed roll (sometimes), making the skill bonus pretty handy. Also, you don't have to memorize Divine Favor. This seems like a nice paladin item. I'll call this one 3500, same as the Healing belt.

7) Belt of Ultimate Athleticism - Those are some checks that when you need them, you really need them. And the option to 'Take 20' when you really have to is pretty cool. Let's call it 4500 gp.

8) Belt of the Wide Earth - What an odd combination of abilties. 10,000 gp for giving clerics access to two teleports a day, better than even a domain can do for them.

9) Belt of Priestly Might - This seems pretty straight-forward. Call it a 7000 gp, paying a little extra for doubling two abilities in one slot.

10) Silkslick Belt - People serious about escaping buy teleportation items, not items to boost escape artist checks. I dunno. 2000 gp?
 
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