D&D 5E The Problem with Constitution

[Satyrn]

6e, being the natural evolution of D&D, will just have three abilities.

Dexterity.
Charisma.

And Constitution. You know, for hit points.


Pre-order your rapiers now.

I prefer to call it an estoc.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[KarinsDad]

But I think my fav version is what I use for Primeval Thule - best 3 of 5d6 in order, then change any 1 stat for a '15'. It creates characters with a lot of +2 and +3 stats in odd places, which is great for the swords & sorcery tone and makes save-or-suck spells a bit less nasty.

I once saw a player roll 2 16s, 2 17s, and 2 18s on 3 of 5d6. The odds of 6 16s or higher is about 1 in 6250, so the odds of this are lower (probably in the magnitude of 1 in 1.2 million).

 

[jgsugden]

I'd rather they eliminated Con and made "extreme health" something that you buy - perhaps a feat. However, it works as is.

 

[Aldarc]

Constitution has enough other uses and functions that removing it entirely (from any edition) would probably create lots more headaches than it solves.

I think that you may be exaggerating how much of a problem it would be.

The willpower split is an issue. I'd like to see it all go under Charisma, with sagacity and intuition put under Wisdom and wits under Intelligence.

That's a possibility. I think that this becomes a matter of preference though, depending on what you want the attributes to do for the play experience. Fantasy Age, for example, breaks up the mental stats into Communication, Intellect, Perception, and Willpower. Savage Worlds condenses them down to Smarts and Spirit.

Of course - at the risk of incurring [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION]'s wrath - I would almost prefer to move Clerics to Charisma, with Bards and Paladins. And then move the Warlock to Intelligence and the Sorcerer to Wisdom. #GoodbyeSorlocks (#HelloSorangers?)

However, if that leads to an imbalance in how many skills go with each stat (something the designers probably spent lots of time thinking about) then those would have to be tweaked as well.

Of course, another solution then might just be to get rid of skills and lean harder into ability checks. Let the GM be the judge about what attribute applies for a given check.

Or any of them, for that matter - your concentration stat becomes whichever one is primary for your class e.g. Int for Wizards, Wis for Clerics, etc.

Brilliant. Simple. Elegant. Works.

 

[Xeviat]

The other way to look at this situation and help explain why the 12-16 CON thing isn't much of a problem for some of us is like this...

I as a DM help new players make new characters. I see the same "choice" being made time and time again. As someone interested in game design, that's the sign of a feature that needs to be addressed.

Its interesting, because I so rarely see the tough feat selected, yet I see 80% 14s in Con.

Ability scores are representative of a character. They help determine what challenges a character will be successful at, and often which they'll try to avoid. If the random numbers scribbled on a paper don't matter, then why are you using a rule system to adjudicate your roleplaying?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Xeviat]

How do you think the following rule changes would influence your ability score placement choices?

Remove Con mod to HP/level
Add Con Score HP at 1st level (I've done this before without the other changes, my players liked the extra hp and combat still felt challenging, just not whackamoley)
Recover all spent HD on a long rest (con mod is still added to HD rolls for healing)

After early levels, this decreases HP total but increases regular daily hp amount by increasing HD recovery across multiple days. I feel decreasing max hp but increasing daily hp serves to hide hit points and makes having less feel like less of a loss (like 4E and healing surges).

 

[Aldarc]

I think the major problem with your proposal is the first part; regardless of whether it's a good idea or a bad idea, Clerics and wisdom go together in D&D history like peanut butter and jelly.

To be honest, I think that the Cleric class and Wisdom are sort of a mutual support group - neither really has a point without the other, given the amount of things that Charisma has swallowed up.

I'm not the biggest fan to appeals to tradition. I don't think it's so much a peanut butter & jelly situation. (Also, I know a number of Europeans who find that combination weird so it's not exactly a universal truth.) I think it's mostly a comfort zone thing.

I am totally behind the idea of moving more classes (esp. Warlock/Sorcerer) out of Charisma. Or, you know, we could just axe the Paladin. That's a start!

One step at a time.

 

[Krachek]

How do you think the following rule changes would influence your ability score placement choices?

Remove Con mod to HP/level
Add Con Score HP at 1st level (I've done this before without the other changes, my players liked the extra hp and combat still felt challenging, just not whackamoley)
Recover all spent HD on a long rest (con mod is still added to HD rolls for healing)

After early levels, this decreases HP total but increases regular daily hp amount by increasing HD recovery across multiple days. I feel decreasing max hp but increasing daily hp serves to hide hit points and makes having less feel like less of a loss (like 4E and healing surges).

Con would stay a frequent saving throw.
People will tend to leave the 14 but keep at least a 12.
All these new solutions may produce a unified 12 con for everyone.
I’m not sure it is an improvement!