D&D General The Problem with Evil or what if we don't use alignments?

[Maxperson]

And Liam was very surprised and hadn't even decided alignment for his character so he made it up on the spot!

Which makes sense. I'd expect that particular crowd not to need alignment the way many new or less creative players do.

 

[Fenris-77]

It's possible @Minigiant meant evil humanoid races, not individuals.

Possibly, yeah.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

The first CR campaign used alignment a lot more, even involving Mercer announcing that a PC had changed alignment on a few occasions (one of which made a character miss out on the extra damage versus a Rakshasa even) Since the Circlet of Barbed Vision was created for the Tal'Dorei Campaign Setting book it has more of that mentality.

Interesting to hear, and not what I'd expect. I didn't really get into Critical Role into partway through the second campaign.

It's just interesting that Exandria Unlimited would feature alignment at all when the last few WotC books have omitted it due to controversy.

 

[Faolyn]

Actually, a question for all of the people in this thread: do you use random encounters?

I ask because I sort of don't. I generally only do planned encounters, where I've already given it some thought as to what the creatures involved are like and what they want. And my lists of random encounters aren't "2d6 orcs", it's "5 orcs who are out hunting wildlife for food and will grow hostile if the PCs do anything that scares the game away or tries to interfere with their hunt."

This isn't a knock on people who use random encounters: due to my ADHD, I really benefit having these things planned out, even if they don't actually get used (because I can always use them later) (also, I often forget to roll for random encounters). But I am curious because, in reading the responses of people who find alignment useful, how much of it is because they're more about improv-ing what the PCs see. This came to me when @Cadence said (re: elusive pranksters) "Do the pranksters do non harmful pranks or harmful ones?" because to me, that's something that I would have already figured out before I put the pranksters in the game.

So it's entirely possible that one of the disconnects here is due to random vs. planned encounters.

 

[Oofta]

You just said alignment was only a role-playing aid for the player. What does it matter to you as DM if a player feels that that Bond best reflects their character?

It matters for my PC. It matters for NPCs and, if we have similar bonds for monsters, for monsters as well when I DM.

People keep saying TIBF is "better". I disagree. They are another descriptor, alignment tells me something different. If you don't get that or agree, don't use it.

 

[Oofta]

Because if it's included in the PH, then it should have some sort of actual meaning behind it that everyone can point to.

It does. It just doesn't have to be to the level exact wording and nit-pickiness you take it to. Alignment isn't a straightjacket, it's not a strict "thou shalt", it's a general guideline. If you don't get that, don't use it.

 

[Maxperson]

But again, what do those two letters (which are not two letters, but actually the words spelled out) actually tell you? One lawful evil person could always honor the letter and spirit of an agreement, and another could always exploit loopholes. Those are very different things that use the exact same "two letters." And worse, those "two letters" are often very, very different between tables and even players--made even more so when you have players who are obnoxious about alignments or take them to extremes.

It tells me which box they mostly play in. From that I can pick actions which reflect that box. I might pick someone who honors the letter and spirit of the agreement, but only enters into agreements that enrich him, even if others are exploited or hurt by those agreements. I might pick to roleplay the person as someone who enters into agreements, but looks for loopholes to exploit to his benefit and the detriment of others. It doesn't matter which way I choose to do it. The two letters or two words give me the framework within to begin operating and if I want to, expand upon.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I ask because I sort of don't. I generally only do planned encounters, where I've already given it some thought as to what the creatures involved are like and what they want. And my lists of random encounters aren't "2d6 orcs", it's "5 orcs who are out hunting wildlife for food and will grow hostile if the PCs do anything that scares the game away or tries to interfere with their hunt."

Yeah, sameish. The idea the I would just randomly generate an encounter with a zorglorb at the middle of the game without having the foggiest what zorglorbs actually are or how they fit in the setting seems totally absurd to me.

Now when designing sessions I might browse monster lists to see what might be usable, but I don't look the alignment then either.

 

[Maxperson]

Actually, a question for all of the people in this thread: do you use random encounters?

I ask because I sort of don't. I generally only do planned encounters, where I've already given it some thought as to what the creatures involved are like and what they want. And my lists of random encounters aren't "2d6 orcs", it's "5 orcs who are out hunting wildlife for food and will grow hostile if the PCs do anything that scares the game away or tries to interfere with their hunt."

I do the latter. Now, if they kill the orcs in the fight, I don't need any more than that, but hostile is not enough to tell me what happens if the PCs decide to capture and interrogate one. Alignment helps me roleplay the unexpected social interaction.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I do the latter. Now, if they kill the orcs in the fight, I don't need any more than that, but hostile is not enough to tell me what happens if the PCs decide to capture and interrogate one. Alignment helps me roleplay the unexpected social interaction.

How? Why can't you just decide their personality? I simply don't get this, the GM needs to improvise all sort of stuff all the time. How do you manage to improvise the décor, the staff and the clientele for a tavern the players randomly choose to enter without the tavern having an alignment?