The problem with fighting drow

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Drow tactics

As the Salvatore and other books mentioned several times. The Drow on the march were one of the most fearsome gathering of individual warriors you would ever find.

That does not make them an army.

I think that just because Drow have "Chaotic" as part of their alignment doesn't mean they don't use tactics in combat. CE Drow can and should use intelligent tactics and organization in battle if need be (ie; battling goodly surface invaders).

Drow aren't going to rush into straight up into combat like berzerkers because they are Chaotic. They ARE going to watch each others' backs. They will play to their strengths: stealth, dirty fighting, ambushing, using greater numbers, etc. Self-preservation and defense of their homeland is something that any race will do regardless of alignment.

It's like this: A little Lawfulness now for the Greater Chaos later. Alll done in the name of evil, right?

 

[Voadam]

Ok, Iv'e been using drow since Fiend Folio and Unearthed arcana so a few points.

Edena is correct that in FF females got uber stats and males much lesser so. Also minimum drow level was 2 as a fighter for the randomly generated monster. There were lots of clerics and wizards and multiclasses but most of the patrols were still level 2 fighters with some higher level leaders.

There were leveled dwarves in 1e just as there were for most humanoid/dmihuman creatures. Check your old MM

I thought the drow poison was save at -4 but it has been a while.

Anyway, in 1e UA PC drow started with no drow items, no MR, and at 1st level, so the PCs started out with a few minor spells and two weapon abilities plus sunlight and bright light problems.

NPC drow started out at least 2nd level, with uber items and poison.

Drow were more powerful in 1e (except for level limits) and in 2e than 3e but they are still powerful.

The dwarves are well set up to fight drow because they have good spell and poison resistances.

I would have had the fight go differntly in your 2e example because I interpreted how MR worked differently.

 

[S'mon]

I think what Edena has been trying to say is:

Drow are kewl.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I much prefer a recent quote from Wulf Ratbane after he kicked some pansy dark elf ass in battle.

"Drow are my bitches!"

I think what Edena has been trying to say is:

Drow are kewl.

 

[Johno]

The problem with the example given, is the blatant disregard for basic rules.

As has been previously described, Stoneskin lasted until the protection had been worn away. The spell component listed "diamond dust", I too ruled that it was 1000 gp of the stuff.

The party had a limited amount of the stuff, but definitely used it before entering the drow realm.

In my 1e/2e campaign, there was a time when the adventurers entered Erelhei Cinlu, (sp?) the great Drow City of Oerth, located deep under the Vesve Forest, to rescue a kidnapped Elven Princess.

How did they manage to enter such a city? Simple. They walked in. Appearance changing magics are mundane by 12th level. Drow are interested in trade. Not every encounter with them must be hostile. All manner of Evil beings are found in Erelhei Cinlu, Illithids, Duergar, Unsavory human Necromancers, Slave traders, the works.

Were the players scared less about having their mission revealed? You bet! So much so they barely dared to talk to anyone!

Did they succeed in their mission? Of course, thanks to the aid of several Drow factions, whose reasons for aiding the party shall remain a mystery, known only to me. Of course they were all captured or killed, and later had to sell certain body parts...

And certain drow factions were well pleased with the results of their manipulations, as well...

 

[Squire James]

One of the major flaws of 2e was that winning initiative often completely determines the outcome of a close encounter, and has the possibility of swinging even one-sided conflicts the other way if the case is extreme. Not to mention there was never any really hard-and-fast initiative rules. Some DM's rolled party initiative, some rolled individual initiative. Some factored in casting times of intended actions and speed factors of weapons, some didn't. For the sake of this discussion, I'm assuming individual initiative modified by Dex Reaction bonus but nothing else.

For instance, Edena, consider the effect on that battle of yours if the party actually all WON initiative over the Drow on the first round (only slightly less likely than the Drow all winning it). In THAT scenario, it is entirely possible that the battle is over in the first round. The fighters and monk wait for the wizard's turn, the wizards Haste the party (it was a full-party spell back then, and the primary source of party aging), and the fighter-types proceed to Cuisinart the drow with 4 attacks a round (6 for the monk). The drow would have trouble retaliating with spells, because they too are susceptible to having them interrupted by Hasted fighters. This is not even mentioning what the other spellcasters are doing.

A pretty big difference swinging on those first initiative rolls, no?