The Punisher 'laughably awful'

[Alzrius]

I haven't seen the movie yet (or the 1989 movie), so I'm just taking a stab in the dark here.

Could one of the reasons that The Punisher doesn't seem to do well on the big screen be because he has no iconic villain?

For me, Super-Heroes tend to be rather well defined not just by who they are and what they do, but who they fight (specifically). Spider-Man worked out great because the Green Goblin is so intimately tied into Peter Parker's personal life that he can't just be a faceless villain. Magneto is a darker side of the X-Men, since he ultimately wants the same goal that they do. Who does The Punisher have?

I just can't see getting too excited about him killing a group of rather nameless gangsters. The heroes (and anti-heroes) of Marvel are all larger-than-life figures, even if they don't have super powers, and as such require such larger-than-life opponents to throw them into sharper contrast. The Punisher doesn't seem to have that, and that (from my rather limited view on the subject) isn't helping him, movie-wise.

 

[WayneLigon]

Frank goes around using fake fire hydrants to give Travolta's wife parking tickets? WTF!!??

Ah, another newspaper (or internet, or whatever source) reviewer not actually watching a film, but rather marking time in a film he doesn't like but is getting paid to see. I wish I had $10 for every one of those yahoos. The fake fire plug is there so the parking space will still be available to him; otherwise, she'd know someone moved her car. Once reason I don't bother much with reviews anymore. So many of them don't seem to actually grasp what they're seeing on the screen.

screen) Frank sets up elaborate schemes that trick Travolta into thinking his wife is cheating on him and cause millions of laundered dollars to be lost. Because that's what the Punisher is all about. Destroying your money. WTF?? Making you mad at your wife. WTF??

Destroying the money gets the Cubans mad at him. Mad Cubans = no more huge money-laundering empire for Saint. Remember the bit about where he really loves money? It takes away something he loves. He loves his best friend. Castle makes him kill him. He loves his wife. Castle make him kill her, too. How much more horrifying is it for Saint, in those last moments, to know he's killed two people he really loved, when they were both totally innocent? A lot more. Castle strips away everything Saint loves, just like Saint did to him, then kills him.

It was an OK movie; not the best actioner I've seen. As an adaptation of the Punisher comic, well, it does fail at that. Castle in the comics is at war with criminals, and takes no prisoners. Somehow, don't think we're going to be seeing many movies featuring crazy murdering ex-Military people any time soon, so I can understand that change. The location.. I kinda understand the change there, but I don't agree with it. It wouldn't matter to me if other movies have trod on that same ground: a cold, rainy grime-filled New York would have been a better setting. I'd give it a C; it's a good effort and there are some thing in it that are cool. The fight with The Russian. Dave's 'I won't talk scene'.

 

[Enforcer]

I saw it last night, but because moviefone.com lied to me about Hellboy playing at this one theater...

Anyways, I'm not a big comic book reader and I've never read the Punisher comics. I've also never seen the first movie. That said, I liked the movie. Not the best comic book hero movie ever (X-Men 2, in my opinion), but certainly better than Batman and Robin. I liked it better than Daredevil too.

No, Frank doesn't go John Woo style as his family's being killed. This, and other scenes in the movie really emphasize the whole "I'm not a Superhero" thing. The guy is human. He gets hurt. And, he understands that he gets hurt and acts accordingly. And yes, I though most of the gunplay was pretty darn realistic (as far as a non-military, non-police person knows these things).

Personally, I thought the whole "making John Travolta mad at his wife" thing was excellent. Especially since Travolta does a good job playing his character as loving his wife. To me he seems to kick up the revenge movie a notch by really putting the hurt on Travolta's Saint character. His last lines to Saint is great in a "Haha, I've totally owned you" kind of way. Yeah, the fire skull symbol is cheezy, but I liked it anyways.

As for the Jane/Lambert comparison...you get to see Jane without a shirt on early into the movie, and it's quite clear that Jane could break Lambert in half. He just has much more of a physical presence than Lambert ever could. The guy is built. And he doesn't have an annoying accent, so Jane gets bonus points there. Honestly, the Lambert thing never crossed my mind until I read that post in this thread--after seeing the movie.

I also think Jane did a hell of a job with the whole emotional self-destruction thing too. Not as good as Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon I, but still above average.

My recommendation is that it's worth seeing, at least if you don't have any comic-book fan baggage to bring along. Buy the DVD when it comes out? I might, depending on what deleted scenes they include--they probably deleted some that detailed Saint's interaction with the Toro brothers, for example.

 

[Villano]

I haven't seen the movie yet (or the 1989 movie), so I'm just taking a stab in the dark here.

Could one of the reasons that The Punisher doesn't seem to do well on the big screen be because he has no iconic villain?

I'm not so sure of that in the case of the Punisher, but I definitely feel this was behind the failure of Hulk. When you get down to it, he only has the Leader and Abomination. After that, what have you got? Bi-Beast? The Hulk's best villains are enemies from other comics (such as Absorbing Man).

As to Punisher, I think you just need a stronger, larger than life villain. Something like what Bond has (albeit, not to that world conquering level). Oddjob, Tee-Hee, and Jaws are good examples of what Punisher needs.

Marvel does have a few villains that could work in a Punisher film. Hammerhead is good. Anyone remember Jigsaw?

 

[Kai Lord]

Ah, another newspaper (or internet, or whatever source) reviewer not actually watching a film, but rather marking time in a film he doesn't like but is getting paid to see. I wish I had $10 for every one of those yahoos. The fake fire plug is there so the parking space will still be available to him; otherwise, she'd know someone moved her car.

And why did he move her car? So she'd get an incriminating parking ticket when he left it in front of the hotel.

Destroying the money gets the Cubans mad at him. Mad Cubans = no more huge money-laundering empire for Saint. Remember the bit about where he really loves money? It takes away something he loves.

And this is where they screwed up big. Let's never mind that its incredibly untrue to the spirit of the Punisher from the comics to "destroy what criminals love." Let's just take the character as he's presented on film.

They should have had Saint lose an incredible amount of money due to Frank's opening FBI sting, and do away with having Saint's son killed altogether. Saint had Frank and his family targetted because he was a grieving father out for revenge for the death of his son. This is what we're supposed to relate to with Frank. Frank's rampage is really quite hypocritical when you get down to it.

"Oh you destroy people's lives when they cause your son to die? Well me too!"

By changing the opening scene and having Saint order the death of Frank and his family because of a screwed up arms deal (or whatever) it would give Frank destroying Saint's money a lot more wait.

"You killed my family over ^!#@%&* money!??? Well now its all gone! And everyone you shared it with!" You know, something like that.

That being said, the best line in the movie was definitely:

Saint: "You killed my son..."

*BOOM!*

Frank: "Both of 'em."

Ouch, that's just harsh.