D&D (2024) The rapier problem

[Bupp]

I think the audience has long ago spoken and doesn't want D&D to be a Middle Ages simulator. That said, I think the weapons table can be cleaned up without taking that step.

I have moved away from a Middle Ages type setting long ago. The availability of magic, in nearly every edition, makes those technology levels untenable in my mind.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I love swashbuckling characters, I do. But there should not be one best weapon in the game for a huge swath of characters. But right now, there is: the rapier.

If I want to make a genasi Thief of Bagdad style swashbuckler, I will be costing myself damage output (the main contribution swashbucklers bring to a party) by going with a scimitar instead of a rapier. Likewise a halfling thief with a short sword, or any other aesthetic choices that are, by the math, "wrong."

(See also no one using slings or a host of other weapons, because it's never the right decision to make.)

I'm not sure what the fix is.

Make weapon stats more similar, with only flavor between them? I believe there's an OSR game (maybe either the White or Black Hack) where every class does a set amount of damage, no matter what weapon they're using.

Make weapon stats far more complex, with every weapon being situationally good? The odds are that there will still be a "best" weapon and it'll just take the hardcore math types throwing everything into a spreadsheet to determine what it is.

What do you think? Is this a problem in your game? Have you attempted to fix it in some fashion?

In my 5e game the “rapier” is a host of weapons. Any one handed cut-and-thrust sword whose balance is close to the hilt, basically. The scimitar also has identical stats to it, and the short sword can be piercing or slashing.

In my own system, weapons aren’t differentiated by damage. Damage type matters, and things like range and reach matter, but it’s mostly flavor in the end, unless you specialize via traits in particular moves that rely on a particular weapon.

 

[Olrox17]

Are you trying, like actively trying, to give every fencer and HEMA person on these boards an actual aneurysm lol? Rapiers are not a weapon designed to be wielded with two hands on the hilt.

Maybe I am?
Seriously though, I went into more detail on my other posts. I didn’t mean to suggest that rapier were actually used with two hands, despite what dark souls had been trying to teach us.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

despite what dark souls had been trying to teach us

< eye twitch >

Fair enough. Versatile is a bit of a weird one anyway. I just wish there was a bit more going on with weapons in 5E.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

EDIT: never mind, makes more sense in another thread.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

my answer is refluff...

"Oh I have an elven arming sword, and it's 1d8 finesse martial"
"Cool, I have a dragonbone scimitar and it's 1d8 finesse martial"

 

[Micah Sweet]

my answer is refluff...

"Oh I have an elven arming sword, and it's 1d8 finesse martial"
"Cool, I have a dragonbone scimitar and it's 1d8 finesse martial"

I don't care for this. If you don't want the mechanics to differ, I would just say it's a sword (of whatever variety and stats) that was manufactured by elves, dragonborn, or whoever.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

my answer is refluff...

"Oh I have an elven arming sword, and it's 1d8 finesse martial"
"Cool, I have a dragonbone scimitar and it's 1d8 finesse martial"

It’s already like this

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It’s already like this

Depends. When the weapons table lists trident separately, some people are going to be like 'you cannot reskin a spear to be a trident, use the trident stats, which are so bad that no-one will ever use it'.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't care for this. If you don't want the mechanics to differ, I would just say it's a sword (of whatever variety and stats) that was manufactured by elves, dragonborn, or whoever.

Yeah we find the stats we want to use and the flavor look and try to make them work (obviously we aren't letting anyone take a d10 heavy two handed reach dagger)