The Second PRINCES OF THE APOCALYPSE Review

Iosue · Mar 26, 2015

Brian Michaluk said:
Doing a quick scan through the book looking for monsters not in the basic package.

Scout - MM only
Veteran - MM only
Ankheg - MM only
Merrow - MM only
Jackelware - MM only

that's 3 pages looked over and found 5 monsters already so yes MM is needed

Scout and Veteran are in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen Supplement, while the Merrow is in the Rise of Tiamat Supplement.

Both the Hoard of the Dragon Queen and the Rise of Tiamat supplements have over 50 monster entries, with some overlap, anyway, so I doubt there will be too many to put in a PotA supplement. There will probably some overlap with the previous supplements as well.

Eventually, even without buying the MM someone just using the Basic Rules and supplements will have statblocks for virtually all the monsters in the MM. Of course, they won't have all the choice art and inspirational fluff, so the MM still has value on its own.

Chocolategravy · Mar 26, 2015

Brian Michaluk said:
Doing a quick scan through the book looking for monsters not in the basic package. Scout - MM only Veteran - MM only Ankheg - MM only Merrow - MM only Jackelware - MM only that's 3 pages looked over and found 5 monsters already so yes MM is needed

Ugh, it's much better if it's just in the book itself. Having to use an additional book is annoying, worse when there are multiple monsters on multiple pages for the same fight. So much handier if there was a PDF we could have on a tablet or print out...

Brian Michaluk · Mar 26, 2015

Chocolategravy said:
Ugh, it's much better if it's just in the book itself. Having to use an additional book is annoying, worse when there are multiple monsters on multiple pages for the same fight. So much handier if there was a PDF we could have on a tablet or print out...

Personally I prefer no stats in the module and have it packed full of more adventure which this module seems to have done really well. I always liked having my adventure book open on the left and monster stat book on the right at my game table but I built a custom game table out of an old pool table

When they provided all stats in each encounter it uses up a lot of pages.

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Chocolategravy · Mar 26, 2015

Brian Michaluk said:
Personally I prefer no stats in the module and have it packed full of more adventure which this module seems to have done really well.

I think you mean "art" not "adventure". Thanks to sections of 5E books being half art we have common rules missing like no lava in the unusual terrain section or 8 sample traps compared to 4E's 23 sample traps.

Rule repetition by putting in monster stats is space filler, much like repeating the rules for extra attack 8 times in the PHB, but so is an over abundance of art, but the art is less useful.

Uller · Mar 26, 2015

Would WotC be cool with someone publishing all the Basic and supplement monsters in one handy database that produces nice formatted printed stat blocks? Or would Cease and Desist letter be arriving via a Sending spell?

I don't have time to put something together like that but I bet there are a few folks out there that could easily do it...

I like that we don't have stat blocks in every encounter description. Most of the time I modify the encounters to fit my group. Sometimes I add monsters. Sometimes I swap monsters out for others. So it really is wasted space to me. I'd rather have the monsters in a free pdf than pay more or have a shortened adventure.

Brian Michaluk · Mar 26, 2015

Chocolategravy said:
I think you mean "art" not "adventure". Thanks to sections of 5E books being half art we have common rules missing like no lava in the unusual terrain section or 8 sample traps compared to 4E's 23 sample traps.

Rule repetition by putting in monster stats is space filler, much like repeating the rules for extra attack 8 times in the PHB, but so is an over abundance of art, but the art is less useful.

seems your assuming this book is the same as some other book without ever seeing it. Most pages are like the following (made small and blurry so it should be ok to post)

Also the book is not made by wizards of the coast. Its by Sasquatch game studio which seems to be mostly ex wizards employees so I am thinking some corporate shuffling for cost savings or something. Just glad its not kobold press again like the last modules.

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Staffan · Mar 26, 2015

Chocolategravy said:
I think you mean "art" not "adventure". Thanks to sections of 5E books being half art we have common rules missing like no lava in the unusual terrain section or 8 sample traps compared to 4E's 23 sample traps.

It should be fairly easy to adapt these rules to 5e.

Brian Michaluk · Mar 26, 2015

Part of the back of the book

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Drammattex · Mar 26, 2015

Brian Michaluk said:
Also the book is not made by wizards of the coast. Its by Sasquatch game studio which seems to be mostly ex wizards employees so I am thinking some corporate shuffling for cost savings or something. Just glad its not kobold press again like the last modules.

Sasquatch is Rich Baker, David Noonan, and Stephen Schubert. Rich began at TSR in the early '90s and worked at Wizards until recently. Dave and Steve S. worked on D&D at Wizards for much of 3e/3.5 on many books and adventures, and Stephen Schubert led D&D Miniatures for the second half of its run (one of my favorites that Dave and Steve S. both worked on was Heroes of Battle; I still use the rules and guidance in that book to run mass battles). The freelance writers Sasquatch hired were Ed Greenwood, Robert J. Schwalb, and Steve Townshend (and I believe Jeff Ludwig was brought on for the Earth Node). Kobold is made up of legendary game writers Wolfgang Bauer and Steve Winter. They're a great studio.

ingeloak · Mar 26, 2015

JeffB said:
Im odd , then

I run a game for group of 15-16 year olds. My son and some of his friends. Been doing it for 4 years. They have absolutely no interest or desire buying rulebook or learning the rules in depth. They just want to play and have fun, no work desired , just like popping on the Xbox or what have you.

As mentioned elsewhere, I have not invested in the 5e books partly because of the group and their desire not to be bothered with details,but mainly because I am not happy with what WOTC is not producing for 5e as regards to advnture material, and with my work and family obligations, my little prep time is better spent reviewing than converting. Sessions suffer when I spend more time on stats than getting to know the material. It's easier and adds up to better play experiences to run Pathfinder BB with PF adventures, OD&D/OSR adventures with S&W, or even come up with a couple of ideas and improv with Dungeon World.

I. have pre ordered POTA because of positive banter, but if WOTC is not planning a web supplement like they did with Tyranny, then I will cancel my pre-order and just move on. I have come to realize I am no longer in the target market and this rollout/business model of 5e isn't going to work for me like every previous edition . If I didn't enjoy 5e gameplay as much as I do I wouldn't care that much, but thems the breaks

that's pretty cool, actually. wish my dad had done that. honestly though, if you are doing this on a regular basis, you probably need to invest in the 3 main books. they are a wealth of knowledge and are very nicely compiled and illustrated. if you are a veteran gamer, you could probably just get the MM and use the basic freebie rules for the rest. that said, the DMG has a lot of nice magic items and is worth it just for those