D&D 5E The Shield Spell and Spell Points

[Saeviomagy]

I haven't seen any signs of upset balance. (Balance with respect to what?)

Well, the sort of stuff the OP is talking about for starters...

Wizards still wind up expending more spell points per day, on a broader and generally better spell list. Warlocks are still very constrained by spells known and by the fact that Mystic Arcana are totally inflexible at high levels.

Right... but you're measuring spell points, not "what the class does pre-spell points vs post-spell points".

Pre spell point wizards have a growing stock of low level slots that tend to get used for defense and utility, and a limited set of high level slots per day.

Pre spell point warlocks have no such stock - instead they have a higher proportion of high level slots per day. This typically discourages them from spending low level slots on defense and utility, so in addition they get invocations, which can be as good as unlimited castings of a 1st level spell per day.

Spell points for wizards and warlocks favour warlocks up to about level 5, at which point they start favouring wizards. Since we're talking about characters only just getting certain things, I doubt we're into the wizard-favouring territory much if at all.

Post spell point wizards aren't forced to spend their spell points evenly amongst levels, so they gain a bit of flexibility... but only if you assume that they're deviating from the original spread. My personal suspicion would be that most of the time they end up roughly the same, with a slight bias towards higher levels, but that's just my opinion.

Post spell point warlocks have gained a lot of flexibility. Suddenly they can cast a lot more spells than before if they just want to go for raw spell count.

So - at low levels, warlocks get a really sweet deal out of spell points, plus they're getting class abilities to make up for a shortfall that doesn't exist.

Past level 5, the spell point edge drops off, and it starts to look like a bad deal, because the wizard can now dump more points into high level spells.

 

[CapnZapp]

High level they should be able to do it by moderate level with plate and a shield then add +5 to get 25 or at 19 if they are two handed and took protection over GWF +5 to 24

Your post reads a bit garbled, but I think I agree with your essentials - that is, Eldritch Knights being able to cast a LOT of Shield spells, essentially giving them AC ~25 for every crucial combat round of a day.

 

[CapnZapp]

The OP's issue was that moving to the spell point system gave the warlock access to MANY shield spells.

I just wanted to point out that a core Warlock doesn't have 2 Shield spells per short rest, but 2 spells TOTAL per short rest.

Since those spells will quickly be 5th level, casting Shield with them would be insanely expensive.

Yes, it is an illustration why the DMG spell point system is broken broken broken, but I was discussing another highly specific thing.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, the sort of stuff the OP is talking about for starters...

Right... but you're measuring spell points, not "what the class does pre-spell points vs post-spell points".

Pre spell point wizards have a growing stock of low level slots that tend to get used for defense and utility, and a limited set of high level slots per day.

Pre spell point warlocks have no such stock - instead they have a higher proportion of high level slots per day. This typically discourages them from spending low level slots on defense and utility, so in addition they get invocations, which can be as good as unlimited castings of a 1st level spell per day.

Spell points for wizards and warlocks favour warlocks up to about level 5, at which point they start favouring wizards. Since we're talking about

Post spell point wizards aren't forced to spend their spell points evenly amongst levels, so they gain a bit of flexibility... but only if you assume that they're deviating from the original spread. My personal suspicion would be that most of the time they end up roughly the same, with a slight bias towards higher levels, but that's just my opinion.

Post spell point warlocks have gained a lot of flexibility. Suddenly they can cast a lot more spells than before if they just want to go for raw spell count.

So - at low levels, warlocks get a really sweet deal out of spell points, plus they're getting class abilities to make up for a shortfall that doesn't exist.

Past level 5, the spell point edge drops off, and it starts to look like a bad deal, because the wizard can now dump more points into high level spells.

Of course spell-points Warlocks are hugely more powerful/flexible.

When Hemlock says "There is nothing wrong with spell points on a warlock. It works perfectly well. No game breakage." he fails to mention that in his preference the raw Warlock must be an underpowered class, because he sees no issues with massively increasing its power.

Otherwise I agree fully to your analysis, assuming "level 5" means "spell level 5".

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

This isn't entirely true, if you have the lucky feat, the feat requires you to see what rolls are before the hit/miss is announced. The DM doesn't tell you the modifier that is added to the roll, but most sessions the roll itself is in the open.

The rules text of the Lucky feat never actually specifies that you get to see the rolls that are made against you, so it's up to the DM if he wants to tell you.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

(double post)

 

[Saeviomagy]

Otherwise I agree fully to your analysis, assuming "level 5" means "spell level 5".

No, I was talking about character level 5. At level 5, the warlock has 30 spell points per day while the wizard has 27 (assuming 2 short rests and no odd shenanigans). At level 6, the wizard jumps to 35, while the warlock stays the same. As they level, the wizard keeps gaining faster than the warlock does.

Unless I've done my math wrong?