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D&D (2024) The sorcerer shouldn't exist

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
It isn't - you're confusing D&D with Pathfinder.
You're wrong. While it's not nearly as explicit as Pathfinder made it, the idea of the sorcerer having "magic from their bloodline" was present from the beginning:

"Some sorcerers claim that the blood of dragons courses through their veins. It may even be true—it is common knowledge that certain powerful dragons can take humanoid form and even have humanoid lovers, and it’s difficult to prove that a given sorcerer does not have a dragon ancestor. Sorcerers even often have striking good looks, usually with a touch of the exotic that hints at an unusual heritage. Still, the claim that sorcerers are partially draconic is either an unsubstantiated boast on the part of certain sorcerers or envious gossip on the part of those who lack the sorcerer’s gift." -3.0 PHB, page 48.
 

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Flights of Fancy

Candy is King
And wizards have a training or event or something that lets them harness their gift. The fact that the gift is something that everyone in D&D world shares (but people in this one don't) doesn't chang its nature.
You keep calling it a gift but by rules there is no gift. It is just study, apprenticeship, hard work, and stuff. If you can understand it, you learn it.

Luck is the single most important gift there is

Having materials to study 100% is a gift. Being apprenticed to someone is a literal gift.
Please stop word play. This gift you call is not the gift of having innate magic as sorcerer.

Let's look at what actual D&D lore on the wizard says. From the D&D beyond class page:

Creating a wizard character demands a backstory dominated by at least one extraordinary event. How did your character first come into contact with magic? How did you discover you had an aptitude for it? Do you have a natural talent, or did you simply study hard and practice incessantly?

You need an extraordinary event to be a wizard. D&D 5e is absolutely explicit here.

What you are doing is the equivalent of denying that nepo babies have an advantage over most people due to connections and opportunities. Could others have got there with their opportunities plus hard work? Yes. But they didn't have those opportunities.
Coming into contact with magic in a world of magic is not an extraordinary event. Having a natural talent is not an extraordinary event. Simply study and practice incessantly is not an extraordinary event.

This talk has no use. You want option 1, no problem. Option 2, no gift to use innate magic, is the rule for 5E. Any gift or event does not give wizards the power to cast spells. They cast spells because hard work study and stuff.
 

Please stop word play. This gift you call is not the gift of having innate magic as sorcerer.
The only wordplay here is by you, insisting that there is no gift or special event involved in a wizard becoming a wizard despite what the text directly says. You have pulled this out of, as far as I can tell, a flight of fancy and are then insisting that everyone must follow your arbitrary distinction that isn't based on any explicit text you have provided.
Coming into contact with magic in a world of magic is not an extraordinary event. Having a natural talent is not an extraordinary event. Simply study and practice incessantly is not an extraordinary event.
And yet the text of D&D 5e itself insists there must be an extraordinary event for a wizard to become a wizard.

All a sorcerer needs is an extraordinary event. A wizard explicitly needs an extraordinary event that dominated their backstory.

By the explicit rules it is no harder or easier to move into one class than the other other than stat spread. By the descriptions wizards have backgrounds "dominated by at least one extraordinary event". Something extraordinary needs to happen for a wizard to become one.
This talk has no use.
Indeed. You just repeating your erronious headcanon that attempts to invent a difference is a waste of everyone's time.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Game lore is the reason rules exist. They're why we play.
Incorrect. Game lore is made to justify the rules, not vice versa. The sorcerer was created because the designers wanted an alternative to the wizard for spellcasting and the whole "blood of dragons" lore was added afterwards. When they did Races of Stone, they didn't create an entire culture of competitive nomadic mountain dwellers and then create stats for them, they created a "mini giant" race and then went back and filled in the gaps.

Lore is always secondary in D&D. It has to be, y'all won't give up on the notion the PHB has to fit perfectly with every D&D setting ever designed past, present and future.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Let's look at what actual D&D lore on the wizard says. From the D&D beyond class page:

Creating a wizard character demands a backstory dominated by at least one extraordinary event. How did your character first come into contact with magic? How did you discover you had an aptitude for it? Do you have a natural talent, or did you simply study hard and practice incessantly?

You need an extraordinary event to be a wizard. D&D 5e is absolutely explicit here.
In the same way a doctor demands a backstory dominated by at least one 'extraordinary event'. Nothing about that says it has to be supernatural, just something the affected them deeply.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
Incorrect. Game lore is made to justify the rules, not vice versa. The sorcerer was created because the designers wanted an alternative to the wizard for spellcasting and the whole "blood of dragons" lore was added afterwards. When they did Races of Stone, they didn't create an entire culture of competitive nomadic mountain dwellers and then create stats for them, they created a "mini giant" race and then went back and filled in the gaps.

Lore is always secondary in D&D. It has to be, y'all won't give up on the notion the PHB has to fit perfectly with every D&D setting ever designed past, present and future.
Yep. The lore emanates from the game to make it playable, not vice-versa.

The only time that flow is in the opposite direction is in IP-based licensed games, or in some original games. But definitely not D&D.
 

In the same way a doctor demands a backstory dominated by at least one 'extraordinary event'. Nothing about that says it has to be supernatural, just something the affected them deeply.
Do they really need an extraordinary event to go into a high paying profession? Because I wouldn't call any of "born the kid of a doctor, got great grades at school, then made it into med school" to be outright extraordinary.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Do they really need an extraordinary event to go into a high paying profession? Because I wouldn't call any of "born the kid of a doctor, got great grades at school, then made it into med school" to be outright extraordinary.
If they're going to be a compelling character in a story? Yes. That's the point. That's why that line is there.

The wizard is literally someone who gains power from learning. It's not like they got struck by lightning that suddenly made them literate. The extraordinary story is what put them on the path to that higher learning.

Also, everyone wants to get paid. The fact that not everyone is in a high paying job is proof that just wanting to is not enough of an explanation as to how they got where they got. Even 'born the kid of a doctor' has more implications than they just 'wanted' to become a doctor.
 

If they're going to be a compelling character in a story? Yes. That's the point. That's why that line is there.
No they don't. Most will - but a compelling character does not require a compelling backstory. In fact the point of some characters (including the LotR hobbits) includes not having their backstories dominated by specific events. Sometimes the most compelling thing to do for a story is take a deliberately fairly ordinary person and have the extraordinary events happen after the story starts.
Also, everyone wants to get paid. The fact that not everyone is in a high paying job is proof that just wanting to is not enough of an explanation as to how they got where they got. Even 'born the kid of a doctor' has more implications than they just 'wanted' to become a doctor.
That doesn't make anything actively extraordinary.
 


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