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The Superman Returns spoiler thread.

Starman said:
I do, too. But, that's 'cause we're geeks ourselves and we're holding out hope for ourselves. :D

Ha ha ha .... exactly.....know your audience. ;) Also....let Bruce Wayne be the cool guy with his secret identity. Clark can be the dork. The difference will be cool when we see them onscreen together in a "I wish" World's Finest movie some day [crosses fingers].

Arnwyn said:
(However, I always thought Lisa Hayes was hot, so what do I know?)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
She was hot.

Ah...brings a tear to me eye. EN World....a place where people understand my obscure geeky references. *sniff* .... I love you guys....

But yes .... Lisa was hot . Cinnamon roll like hair at the ends.....great legs..... came up with the idea for the Daedalus Attack ........fuggadaboutit! :cool:
 

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Chain Lightning said:
But I disagree with your preference for Clark Kent.
Fair enough.
One reason is, it is such a big contrast to the Superman persona that it adds more credibility to his Clark disquise.
I am not claiming there's no validity to this claim, but I personally find this point unconvincing. To strangers, sure. The suave, confident Superman and the timid Clark Kent wouldn't be taken for the same guy. But everyone in the Daily Planet who works with Clark would know, the moment they laid eyes on Superman. It's like identical twins. People who don't know them can't tell them apart. For people who do know them, it's as easy as pie.
We already roll our eyes with just putting on the glasses and combing the hair different thing. But posture, mannerisms, and all the other dorky things helps the audience suspend reality a bit more.
For me this doesn't help at all. Accepting the Superman/Clark Kent disguise is an act of pure, unaided suspension of disbelief. Nothing done is going to make it any easier. It's patently silly regardless of what angle you look at it from. But I accept it, because it's Superman. As a result, it serves as poor justification for other incongruities in the mythos.
Another reason.....and my main reason.....is that I like seeing non-typical things. You say you can't see someone as strong as Lois falling for a dork like Clark? Who says all intelligent, beautiful, and strong women HAVE to fall for guys that are "cool"? Sometimes girls just geet sick of the "cool" guy....sometimes they like the sweet and dependable guy...even if he is a dork.
But that's just it. Movie Clark isn't a dependable guy. He is basically never there when Lois needs him, so that Superman can be. He's also not sweet, at least not from what I saw in the movie. Unless Lois just happens to find clutzes sweet, in which case she's going to be disappointed when she discovers that his clutziness is an act.

It's the difference between Ray Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond and Doug Heffernan from King of Queens. There are absolutely no redeeming qualities about Ray Barone in Raymond. He's not a good father. He's not a good husband. He's not romantic, or smart, or anything. It is inconceivable to me why his wife or indeed any woman, would love him.

Contrast that to Doug. He's not the greatest catch either. But you can see that he's a good man often trying to do the right thing, that he loves his wife, and tries hard. He might not get every hottie's number in the bar, but you can see why a particular hottie would fall for him.

To pull this long tangent back on track, I see movie Clark Kent as another Ray Barone. He has no redeeming qualities, and I'm supposed to accept that Lois will prefer him to Superman, who has a lot of redeeming qualities, even if they're superficial ones.

The Lois and Clark Clark Kent was different. Sure, he was a country boy and not as sophisticated as Lois might like. But he he was a sweet and (mostly) dependable guy. It made sense that, although Superman has all the super-powers, she'd fall in love with that sweet and dependable guy.
I would admire Lois more when she finally chooses Clark over Superman. Then I would see that she sees past the social awkwardness and realizes he's a good man.
A question for you. Do you believe that Clark is actually physically clumsy. Do you believe that the Clark Kent persona is, like others in the thread have posited, the "true" persona? Or do you believe it's an act, meant to throw off suspicion that they are one and the same individual?
That's what made Rick Hunter's journey in Robotech cool. He finally realized that the girl for him wasn't the flashy singer....but the older more homely girl next door Lisa Hayes.
I imagine that two things hold true (though I haven't seen Robotech in twenty years, so I couldn't say.) 1. That Lisa was honest and not creating a false persona for Rick. And 2. that Lisa had some redeeming qualities.

Both of these aspects are lacking, for me, in the movie Clark.

I like the dorky Clark Kent. I like seeing people in the office ignore him and not going out of their way to rub elbows with him. He's totally invisible in the office. Which makes his secret identity more credible. Better yet though....I like the irony of seeing people who would act friendly around Superman ignore Clark. I like that the most sought after bachelor in the world is walking about un-noticed by all those ladies at the Daily Planet.
For me, its like there's a message saying....."see ladies, sometimes your Superman is right in front of you and you don't know it....."
It's an interesting message, but I don't particularly want to sacrifice my belief in the relationship to sustain it.

Even in "Can't Buy Me Love" the protagonist had a lot of redeeming qualities. We see none of that in Routh's Clark Kent.
 

Lord Pendragon said:
1. That Lisa was honest and not creating a false persona for Rick. And 2. that Lisa had some redeeming qualities.

I know that it could fall into 'some redeeming qualities', but I feel that there should be a #3 for: And Lisa was hot.

...sorry, had to. :heh:

[/hijack]
 

Chain Lightning said:
Also....let Bruce Wayne be the cool guy with his secret identity. Clark can be the dork. The difference will be cool when we see them onscreen together in a "I wish" World's Finest movie some day [crosses fingers].
I thought the Bruce Wayne secret ID was more "arrogant drunken eccentric prick" than "cool guy," personally. ;)

But I will cross my fingers along with you for a Superman/Batman team-up movie. :)
 

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
I know that it could fall into 'some redeeming qualities', but I feel that there should be a #3 for: And Lisa was hot.
But...that completely invalidates Chain Lightning's entire point in the reference.

What's to admire about a guy choosing the nice hot babe over the famous hot babe?

I mean, it'd be no better than a girl choosing the normal decent guy over the superhero decent guy...

:p
 

Lord Pendragon said:
Fair enough.I am not claiming there's no validity to this claim, but I personally find this point unconvincing. To strangers, sure. The suave, confident Superman and the timid Clark Kent wouldn't be taken for the same guy. But everyone in the Daily Planet who works with Clark would know, the moment they laid eyes on Superman. It's like identical twins. People who don't know them can't tell them apart. For people who do know them, it's as easy as pie. For me this doesn't help at all. Accepting the Superman/Clark Kent disguise is an act of pure, unaided suspension of disbelief. Nothing done is going to make it any easier.

This is a minor point that I'm going to disagree with you on. I don't recall which of the Superman movies it was, but there's a scene where Christopher Reeve does a brilliant job visually illustrating the Clark/Superman difference.

It's a scene where he's in Lois's (Lana's?) room as Clark and planning to tell her that he's Superman. She's just stepped out of the room and he takes off his glasses and straightens up (Reeve played Clark with perpetually hunched shoulders and a slight stoop). And in that instant, even though he's still wearing Clark's suit, he just morphs into Superman. No special effects, no nothing, but you might as well have been looking at two completely different people. It was brilliantly done.

Sure, the Clark Kent disguise is partly dependent on a suspension of disbelief, but that's not all there is to it.
 

shilsen said:
Sure, the Clark Kent disguise is partly dependent on a suspension of disbelief, but that's not all there is to it.
Fair enough, we can agree to disagree. I've never met the coworker who could come to work one day wearing (or not wearing) glasses, and convince me they were somebody else. Even when I was doing theatre work in college, I can't think of a one of them that was so good an actor that a pair of specs would be all they'd need to fool me.

I'm not saying the two personas--Clark and Supes--don't have very different mannerisms. I'm just saying that without a pure faith suspension of disbelief, it'd be patently obvious that they were the same person, affecting different mannerisms. At least, for people who are familiar with their features through daily exposure.

In Spider-Man, the Goblin/Osbourne dichotomy is a good example. Especially in the mirror sequence, the actor did a brilliant job of giving life to two distinct personas. But despite the fact that he has completely different mannerisms and personality, if the Goblin persona had put on a pair of specs and walked into the OsCorp board room, the board members' likely reaction would be, "Wtf? Osbourne, have you gone bleeping crazy?"

Not even close to, "Who the heck are you?"
 

shilsen said:
It's a scene where he's in Lois's (Lana's?) room as Clark and planning to tell her that he's Superman. She's just stepped out of the room and he takes off his glasses and straightens up (Reeve played Clark with perpetually hunched shoulders and a slight stoop). And in that instant, even though he's still wearing Clark's suit, he just morphs into Superman. No special effects, no nothing, but you might as well have been looking at two completely different people. It was brilliantly done.

Yes, this is exactly what we found missing in Brandon Routh's attempt to portray the whole Clark Kent/Superman split presentation. He was struggling to present a believable separate Clark Kent persona. Christopher Reeve just nailed it.

It also didn't help that Routh was way too young for the role. "Casting for future sequels" only makes sense if the character works for the first movie right off the bat. (Hmm... movie studio "meta-producing" for future profit margins instead of cinematic excellence..go figure.) At the end of Superman Returns we were referring to him as "SuperDude," since he looks like he's about to head off to a frat kegger.
 

Hi all,

I saw the movie but do not know much about Supermans powers. The actor looked like an air brushed male model out of a magazine - but then i started thinking. he grew up from a child - so his bones, muscles, hair etc all grow.

Would he ever get wrinkles?
Does he grow facial hair?
Does the hair on his head ever need cutting?
Could you cut his hair and nails?
Will he die of old age?
Does he feel things? like did he feel that needle even though it couldnt penetrate his skin?

How did his suit not burn up during re-entry?
How does he hide the suit and cape under his clothes?

I hope someone can answer!
 

Sandain said:
Would he ever get wrinkles?
It depends on the interpretation. In Kingdom Come, an older Superman looks older, complete with graying hair. I seem to recall that the older Superman in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns looked pretty much the same as always.
Does he grow facial hair?
Yes. Lois and Clark introduced the idea of Superman shaving with his own heat-vision coupled with a mirror, which I believe the comic later adopted.
Does the hair on his head ever need cutting?
Could you cut his hair and nails?
Yes, and yes.
Will he die of old age?
I couldn't say for certain, but my impression has been, from the various far-future comics that I've read, is that Kryptonians age and die, but that their lifespans are much longer than a human being's.
Does he feel things? like did he feel that needle even though it couldnt penetrate his skin?
He can certainly feel touch.
How did his suit not burn up during re-entry?
I've heard two answer to that one. 1. That Superman's costume, sewn from his infant swaddling cloth, is Kryptonian and therefore extremely tough. And 2. that Superman's invulnerability is actually the result of a force-field that only extends a centimeter or so from his body. Hence, his clothing becomes invulnerable while he's wearing it.

I'm not sure which of these two answers applies to the current version of Supes, since I don't keep up with the comic these days. Or whether that answer applies to the movie Supes.
How does he hide the suit and cape under his clothes?
The suit is easy to explain. Spandex doesn't really require much room. Now that his cape is made of leather, though, you've got me on that one...
 

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