The top 2 reasons why gaming groups break up (that you can control)

[Ed Cha]

Well, besides players moving or having work schedule changes, here are the two main things that I've seen over and over and over that doom a group everytime:

1. The DM tries to re-create the wheel every session and pats himself on the back for it but eventually burns-out.

2. The DM doesn't create or enforce speedy combats (nails 65% of the player boredom problem).

Interesting theory on point #2 and something that I've pondered for a while now.

Time and time again, I hear DMs saying they don't buy published adventures because they're "creative enough to think of their own ideas". With a few exceptions, my observation is that these people generally seem to run games with NPCs that lack personality and have very little story development. I see a "unique and different" world after world being created, but without full-time devotion to a setting I can see how it's difficult to keep up with all the work involved and things gradually falling apart.

I don't think published adventures are the silver bullet as there is always going to be DM burnout, but I do think people should pick up more than they are right now. Sure, many aren't very good, but some are and even if you don't use them they're good for ideas and inspiration. Just like if you want to know how to write a book, you've got to read a few, if you want to design an adventure, you've got to look over a few. You can't keep referring back to a module made back in the early 80s for all your creativity in adventures either.

 

[Gort]

Yeah, I never use premade modules either - there's always something a little bit off about them. Like the monsters aren't tough enough to challenge a party (my players are all very good at their classes, and know how to make a character) or there's a trap in there that'll send the player caught by it to the Elemental Plane of Fire (CR 3 trap?! QUOI?) or perhaps something that goes against my own "feel" for the game.

Is it really that much work to grab a monster of a couple of CRs above your players, think what it might do to hook the players, and where it might live. There you go, in five minutes flat you've made one disposable combat scenario, usable almost anywhere in your world.

Of course, it takes a lot more to design something indepth that'll interest the players intellectually - I usually like to have one over-reaching plot involving a bad guy with his own motivations and plans, much like a series of Buffy.

My games are usually pretty simple, and I like to play up stereotypes. (The Grand Vizier is evil and scheming, the dragon loves gold and sleeps on a pile of it, the orcs are brutal and barbarous) I mean, player characters are often the exceptions - the wizard is usually exceptionally bright, even by the standards of mages, the barbarian is exceptionally strong, the fighter uses a weapon that perhaps one in a thousand people even know how to use properly.

I've never run something like a political intrigue scenario where everyone is a noble vying for power in a court. Meh, I've picked up a reputation as a "combat GM", what the hell. My players seem to like it, as long as they're winning

 

[Belegbeth]

Yeah, I never use premade modules either - there's always something a little bit off about them. Like the monsters aren't tough enough to challenge a party
...

I have always found it *very* easy to rework premade modules to fit the campaign world and plot lines that I have created. It saves me a lot of time and effort. AND I have never had a problem working them into part of the elaborate plots I generally have in my campaigns.

I'd rather spend my creative efforts on coming up with interesting cultures, organizations, plot-lines, etc., than maps of caves, stats for NPCs, etc.

 

[woodelf]

Hm, can't say I agree with you, Emirikol.

IME - and as others have already stated - real life interfering (i.e. people moving away) is the top reason for people to drop out and (if enough people leave) the game to end prematurely.

The next most common reason for people to leave games IME is personalities that don't mesh well.

Another common reason appears to be game styles that don't mesh, at least judging by the frequency of complaint threads started by 'storytelling' DMs frustrated with their 'hack-'n.slash' groups.

Several people seem to have missed the title of this thread: "The top 2 reasons why gaming groups break up (that you can control)". Real life interferences, you can't control. Player [style] incompatibility you can only sort-of control.

Now, i do think the basic assumptions that started this thread are ill-founded. But i also think they're useful to discuss, precisely because the other reasons aren't controllable, so there's not much point trying. But dissing his hypotheses because they ignore causes that are clearly defined, rightfrom the start, as being outside the scope of the discussion, is just silly.

Oh, and i'm not talking just to you--yours is simply the message i was reading when i got sick of reading them and decided to reply.

 

[StalkingBlue]

Several people seem to have missed the title of this thread: "The top 2 reasons why gaming groups break up (that you can control)".
...

Heh. What you have missed is that the initial poster changed the title half-way through the thread, after getting all our replies and realising that his premise in his first post was somewhat muddled. (See his post of April 11.) Which sorta was the point at which I got tired of replying to this.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

1. The DM tries to re-create the wheel every session and pats himself on the back for it but eventually burns-out.

I buy the second part of this statement, but don't buy that the first part is the cause of the second part.

Here's the deal: DM's think that the D&D game needs to be a lot of work and really be unique to be successful. Another deal is that gamers tend to think that adventure scenario writing is easy, so they place no value on pre-written adventures.

I think that most gamers are completely aware of how tough it is to write an adventure. I know I am. It's just very difficult to fit most scenarios into one's own campaign. It's even tougher to buld the links between pre-made scenarios into your game.

Here are some stats (actual figures):
95% of your gaming is spent adventuring
5% is spent in character creation or worrying about the majority of the campaign.

Here is the insanity (actual figures):
Of the two items purchased:
95% of DM's dollars are spent on Campaign Worlds
5% of DM's dollars are spent on adventures (ask the companies that produce them)

Anyboy see the problem? It's like having cancer and a toe fungus and spending 95% of your time treating the toe fungus. DM's dont' realize that they are killing themselves and their gaming groups by putting their efforts in the wrong direction.

While those numbers may be accurate, I think you may be misinterpreting them severely (and I think its more likely that the 5% spent on adventures applies to "all gamers" not "DM's"). The WoTC research done to support the 3E launch indicated the reasons why this is. If you produce an adventure, you're selling to DM's. If you produce a sourcebook, you're selling to the whole gaming market.

If you're a DM who's burning out, try focusing on making your adventure preperation the focus instead of worrying about other things. Use of a series of pre-printed adventure (free or $$$) for several adventures.

Now, this is a completely valid point; however, it's been shown that one of the things DM's like the most about DM'ing is creating their own worlds and adventures. This is what WoTC's research (the only significant gaming research done to my knowledge) showed. That's why they made the choices they did with 3E.

DM burnout is a huge issue - it doesn't take much hanging around here to see threads about that! There are other solutions - some of them are ones I've taken myself.

• You don't have to play every week! This gets tougher to do the older you get. Every second or third week is fine.
• Try alternating games with another DM if you want to play every week. I've always played in groups where there were other DM's willing to do this, or to run a five or six session campaign to break up things and relieve the burden.
• Use pre-produced material where you can. Sometimes this can be published adventures, or ideas gleaned from Story Hours, or ideas taken from sourcebooks.
• Prepare only what you need to prepare. At times, I've gone overboard, figuring out every NPC in a city even though the PC's never will meet them. There's no need! Create the framework; then fill in the pieces as you need them.
• Use forums like ENWorld or The Rat Bastard DM's Club to brainstorm or steal ideas. Whenever I'm stumped, I have a support group of gamers that I don't actually game with that I can run ideas by and ask for suggestions.

 

[Arnwyn]

In fact, just looking at those first set of figures:
"95% of your gaming is spent adventuring
5% is spent in character creation or worrying about the majority of the campaign."

This is a problem. With that use of "your", you are addressing me, and I can say that 95% of my gaming time is not adventuring. I've seen several sources recommend that a DM spend 50% of their time preparing for the session, and 50% actually running it. Oh, you're trying to address a player and not a DM? But where do they come into this discussion, which is about the burnout of DMs?

I think you might have missed something here. I think he was referring to both players and DMs during an actual game session (when everyone arrives for a gaming session, they spend most of their time adventuring and very little time creating a character - in other words, most of the time spent gaming is the adventuring part). With that in mind, (I think) he was alluding to the types of books that are released compared to the above percentages (more books are being released about character creation than about the actual adventuring... which may not be particularly helpful to DMs who do other things than create an endless stream of NPCs - whether it's during the session or even during prep time).

Maybe...

 

[Janx]

Getting to the new topic of what you can control (which my previous list still applies):

fast combat: shouldn't be a problem. there's been enough written in books and online on how to run faster games

crappy players: as GM you control who you let in. Don't let dorks in and you'll increase the lifespan of your game

crappy GMs: as a player you control who you play under. Don't play under people whose style doesn't match yours

Can'tGamers: Don't trade nookie for gaming. Too many gamers out there drop the crew for a chick who'll screw as long as they dump their gamer friends. Then they sneak around on the SO to game anyway. That's dishonest, and its not being fair to yourself or your friends. This phenomenon ends up making them a crappy player, see above.

BusyBody GMs: Don't make more than you need. Don't build a world in one day. Build the minimum, and expand as you go. Use tools, modules, tables to fill in NPCs, maps, cities as you need. There's enough "builders" out there to borrow from. I never make NPC or city or dungeon maps myself. I find an online tool to do it for me. For some people, using modules works for them, for others, they'd prefer more control.

Run good games, solid stories, good hooks, don't focus on one player too much. Don't make too grandiose of plots that you'll never resolve in less than a year.

In fact, if you know a typical game lasts a year, and that typical parties get to 10th level, use that knowledger. Figure out how many sessions you'll likely have, and figure out the XP rate you'll need to get them there. Plan a storyline that fits in the year you've got. Leave enough threads to continue if things work out. Don't over invest in a campaign.

Janx

 

[Droogie]

No way in hell I'll ever buy a pregen'd module. Nothing fits into my world and I like it that way. Dm burnout for the above reasons (I've seen) tend to occur because the players are too lazy to help out. And yes, players need to help.

ciaran

Agreed. Our solution: we rotate campaigns. Everyone takes their turn DMing. Even if a player sucks as a DM, they just have to be good enough to allow people to have fun and to recharge the DM juices for their next turn up to bat.

Its pretty nice, because it also allows us to try out a variety of d20 games we always wanted to try. Nor do any of the games feel "stagnant" thanks to the relatively rapid rate of character advancement in D20 games (that is if your using the standard rules).

Re: modules- I like'em. Saves me work. I don't object to hard work, I just don't like spending hours and hours of time on Dungeons and Dragons.

And I am a firm believer in a smooth, well-oiled combat session.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Hmm. Never been a part of a group that broke up for those reasons. In my experience it has been the group dynamics that have broken up the group more than anything.

As for DM burn out. I, as the DM, can testify that even pregenerated modules, which I use quite a bit, don't keep you from burning out. Sometimes you just need to step bake from the screen for a little while.

Pregenerated modules take some of the work off the DM, but not all of it. A module still needs to be customized to work in your campaign. Some plot elements will need to be addressed. A few NPC's may need to be reworked. And of course when the PC's finally do turn left instead of right then you need to know your world and the module well enouogh to either get them back on track or wing things going that way.

This kind of preperation is never really noticed by the players as a whole, and when the inevitable comments and complaints about party balance, treasure being found, not being able to play evil characters, whatever finaly do start to surface. A DM will start to ask themselves if this is worth all the time that he/she is putting into it.

At that point DM burn out is beginning to set in. Using premade modules may help some folks. I personally love them. But at the same time, it is not going to keep the burn out from surfacing. I would suggest a DM facing this dreaded disease look to something new and fresh. Get out from behind the screen for a while if possible. Or play something different, Exalted, midnight, Vampire, whatever. Just changing the system or the world can sometimes do a world of good torwards getting the DM reinvigorated.

I think when you are recommending that the DM use premade modules to not spend as much time on their campaign you're forgetting one thing. Many of us do it because it is half the fun of DMing to us. Spending hours and hours on the plot, the NPC's, and the world is one of the many enjoyments we have as the DM. If the time is not spent doing the "module" then the time is spent working on something else.

Ah well. I'm sure I had a point somewhere in there. YMMV

-Ashrum