The Tyranny of the Sword

[kinem]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I've come to realize that I like - for D&D - the traditional (pre-4E) power curves in D&D as a function of power source.

Suppose that it was a modern spy game where we have two heros: one is an ace jet fighter pilot, and one is a highly skilled martial artist. The martial artist's heroics help the pilot get to his plane, then the pilot's skills devastate the enemy on a more massive scale. Balance, of a sort - equal time to shine.

But do we need to say that if the pilot's in his plane and shooting missiles at the martial artist, the martial artist must always be better at one on one combat, therefore he must have the ability to jump 30000' in the air and kick the plane to pieces, flavor be damned? I sure as hell don't think so.

 

[Jinete]

I favor Type 2. What I would really like to see is some kind of mechanism to make other weapons except the sword equally attractive. Maybe some kind of combat maneuvers for each type of weapon.

Hopefully the combat options of somebody wielding a greataxe will be noticeably different than the options of a greatsword wielder. And I mean more than just damage type and crit range.

 

[Zustiur]

Hopefully the combat options of somebody wielding a greataxe will be noticeably different than the options of a greatsword wielder. And I mean more than just damage type and crit range.

That's an interesting premise, but I can't think of any reason why it should be true. Can you provide a rough example of the differences you'd like to see?

 

[Hussar]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I've come to realize that I like - for D&D - the traditional (pre-4E) power curves in D&D as a function of power source.

Suppose that it was a modern spy game where we have two heros: one is an ace jet fighter pilot, and one is a highly skilled martial artist. The martial artist's heroics help the pilot get to his plane, then the pilot's skills devastate the enemy on a more massive scale. Balance, of a sort - equal time to shine.

But do we need to say that if the pilot's in his plane and shooting missiles at the martial artist, the martial artist must always be better at one on one combat, therefore he must have the ability to jump 30000' in the air and kick the plane to pieces, flavor be damned? I sure as hell don't think so.

The problem here is that you wind up with the Decker situation from Shadowrun. Sure, it's equal time, but, it also means that half the time, half the group is sitting on its thumbs watching the other half have fun.

I'd much rather the mechanics try to make sure that no one is riding the pines, or that riding the pines time is minimalized. Building it into the mechanics is a sure way to get the whole 20 minutes of fun packed into 4 hours thing going.

I favor Type 2. What I would really like to see is some kind of mechanism to make other weapons except the sword equally attractive. Maybe some kind of combat maneuvers for each type of weapon.

Hopefully the combat options of somebody wielding a greataxe will be noticeably different than the options of a greatsword wielder. And I mean more than just damage type and crit range.

This is something I'd love to see. Swords have, for too long, been the default weapon in D&D. Best damage and all the best magic goodies. No thank you.

I'd LOVE to see more and more mechanics to differentiate different weapon types. 3e went a fair way in this direction with things like tripping and reach weapons. There were a number of feats too that made other weapons just as valuable as swords.

I'd love to see this taken even further. 4e's proficiency bonuses help, as do the different effects as well. Combine the two and you get a great system. I'd even advocate somethind like the weapon vs armor table, if there was a way to do it that wasn't so finicky.

 

[Jinete]

That's an interesting premise, but I can't think of any reason why it should be true. Can you provide a rough example of the differences you'd like to see?

Well something along the lines of Tome Of Battle maneuvers, but split into weapon groups. Maybe a maneuver that does a short term stun, doable only with blunt weapons. Or some sort of parrying with swords. Or a cleaving maneuver, but only with slashing weapons.

So someone fighting with a sword would be quicker and better at defense. Someone with a greataxe would hack away with less regard for his own safety. Different weapons, different playstyles.

IIRC there are also a number of feats in 3.5 that give some benefits when fighting with a specific weapon or group of weapons. But I found most of them sub par.

 

[nomotog]

A mix between type 1 and 2 it probably the best, but I lean more on 2. Mostly because it is more flexible. Type 1 is more core to the system. You have to do it through weapons, mechanics, or monsters. That also makes it a harder to change things if you want to rebalanced. Using type 2 is easier, just add a new class or ability.