The Ugly Crew

[Sir Robilar]

What would you do with a Pathfinder group in which every character has Charisma 7, telling me that with 15 point point buy you have to dump the stat (and arguing that we´re not instead playing with point buy 20)?

 

[IronWolf]

If they feel they need to dump Charisma with a 15 point buy, then it can be their choice. That doesn't mean it won't have repercussions in their social interactions as you play the game though. Lacking a face-man for the party might make job negotiations tough or make people uneasy as they come into various towns and villages along the way. Sort of like a motley bunch of outlaws would set a town on edge in the old westerns.

That isn't to say go out of your way to punish them, just don't ignore the fact they aren't the prettiest looking or most well spoken bunch.

 

[Celebrim]

What would you do with a Pathfinder group in which every character has Charisma 7, telling me that with 15 point point buy you have to dump the stat (and arguing that we´re not instead playing with point buy 20)?

Charisma tends to be a stat that everyone in the party can dump but _one_ character, who then acts as the party spokeperson. This will often work out fine if the rest of the party can just learn to keep their mouth shut and pretend to be good little minions when in public. Someone in the group has to swallow their pride and dump something other than charisma for the good of the party.

If everyone however dumps the stat, you end up in a situation that is potentially campaign wrecking unless someone has spent skill points on social skills to make up for the character deficiency. Generally speaking, what you should do is what I feel you should always do. That is, you should force the party spokesperson to make reaction tests when meeting any new NPC's. With everyone having at least a -2 penalty on the initial check, quite a few NPC's will start out indifferent or unfriendly that would have otherwise been friendly or at least indifferent. This will mean that information, aid, and even purchases will be more difficult to come by, and even in some cases quests will not be offered to the players. Critical close alliances with potentially useful NPC's are more likely to fall apart, and generally speaking the PC's should reutinely experience failure in any social setting.

This should effect their lives even if they decide to be merely fortune hunters and mercenaries. People will unfairly not trust them, and are more likely to refuse them entry into to towns, or place conditions on their entrance (like turning over weapons) that will be difficult to stomach. Magistrates are more likely to treat the PC's as suspects, and will be much more aggressive in insisting on proper paperwork, licenses, and the payment of taxes. Inn owners are more likely to turn away their business, and everyone will be increasing prices. Retainers and henchmen are less likely to be loyal, and will be more expensive if they are. The standard by which they will be treated as heroes is higher, and because no one is treating them 'fairly' the chance that they'll end up in conflict with society increases.

Add to this the fact that many players who take low charisma will exagerrate the problem by deliberately acting in a beligerent and insulting manner, and you probably shouldn't plan too far ahead in the adventure path because it will probably be derailed. You may end up in a bandit campaign with the PC's as the bandits. Be prepared to accept some disappointment as the storyteller, because really these may not be the heroes you hoped for. Try to have fun with the protagonists you have.

Honestly though, I have to ask you, since none of your players seem willing to play at 15 point buy, why do you want to play at 15 point buy in the first place? I keep a pretty tight reign on my games power level, but point buy is one of the areas I feel ok giving away because its relative anyway. If the PC's insist on higher point buy, then the NPC's get boosted as well. What's your reasoning on the 15 point buy?

Also, I'd be interested in calling my players bluff. If you offered 20 point buy, would anyone have a Charisma higher than 9? If the players badgered me for higher point buy, then dumped Charisma anyway, you can bet that I'd dump by normal referee stance and 'get even' with the players for hassling me. You can guarantee that every social situation that they got into, and there would be a lot of them, would mysteriously have huge circumstance penalties. I don't take very kindly to players whining. I figure that I'm a nice enough guy normally, that if you feel the need to whine, you're just trying to take advantage of me to the detriment of the fun of the group.

But again, on the other hand assuming that they aren't just min/maxing and would buy more reasonable charisma, what's the big deal, 15 point buy or 20? Hows it going to change your game that much?

 

[Vascant]

Randomly rolled stats rock.

I have never been a big fan of the point buy

 

[Kaodi]

I do not think you necessarily need to play Cha 7 as NPCs actively disliking them. You could, in fact, play it as NPCs being utterly apathetic to them. NPCs have a harder time remembering who the PCs are, and care less about their exploits. Even for the people who do remember, they care less about the details of each PC. As long as they do not misbehave too badly, they may just be barely noticed at all; like a whole party of cyphers. Not necessarily a disadvantage if played right.

 

[ahayford]

Someone made a suggestion to me I liked. Make low char characters make Char roles to just "not offend" people whenever they talk....let alone try and convince people to do something.

 

[the Jester]

I'd have the npcs treat them like a bunch of unlikeable social rejects. It is harder to get information, assistance, payment, fair prices, a girlfriend, a friend at all, an ally, a discount at the inn for saving the town.

 

[Filcher]

This will often work out fine if the rest of the party can just learn to keep their mouth shut and pretend to be good little minions when in public.

I'd argue that knowing when to keep your mouth shut is at least 30% of a good charisma score. That half-orc just can't help himself!

 

[Filcher]

I'd have the npcs treat them like a bunch of unlikeable social rejects. It is harder to get information, assistance, payment, fair prices, a girlfriend, a friend at all, an ally, a discount at the inn for saving the town.

Also, it is really easy for the handsome, worthless noble fop to take the credit for their good deeds. They have no PR, and find everyone else benefiting from their sacrifices.

"Why yes, milday, I showed them where to enter the dungeon, and how to defeat the dragon. Indeed, were it not for my help, the well-meaning simpletons might not have survived. You say your father's the king? Why I would *love* for the chance to meet him and tell him my tale!"

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I'd probably shy away from adventures that require a lot of social skills. They sound like their building their PCs for battle, so that's what I'd give them.

I'd also reconsider the 20 point buy. I know 15 says "standard fantasy," but in my experience, 20 is the real "standard." Its what the Pathfinder Society uses for example.