D&D 5E (2024) The Undead Army Necromancer is not Designable

[Minigiant]

In my family's home rew RPG, characters are more like wargame units.

It in Necromancers work on both sides as Heroes can be attached to our command Troops, Elites, or Mounts.

So the zombies attacks are rolled and move with the Necromancers. So their turn is fast.

If the Necromancer detaches zombies off their Troop unit and must follow Troop rules. So you need to be high level or use lesser zombies.

Well we did allow my cousin's Warlock to detach a single inp into an Elite Troop once. it devolved to degenerate play fast

 

[FarBeyondC]

Who is this thread is "they"?
Let them speak for themselves.

If you want 10 individual skeletons, go ahead and like this post so we can get a count.

Have not gotten up to date with the thread, but I am a necromancer player thoroughly disgusted with the proposed changes to the Necromancy subclass that absolutely wants the ability to control 16 skeletons a turn entailing everything said skeletons might do.

 

[Remathilis]

Have not gotten up to date with the thread, but I am a necromancer player thoroughly disgusted with the proposed changes to the Necromancy subclass that absolutely wants the ability to control 16 skeletons a turn entailing everything said skeletons might do.

Have fun playing your Solo game then, because you obliviously won't need the rest of the party.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Can I say that if you're classes primary feature requires you not use it all the time to be fair to the other players, it's not a good feature. You can't design around the if idea of giving a character an op ability and then making them promise not to use it or use it responsibly.

There are so many things that players choose not to do because they might disrupt the flow of the game. I don't see it as being a massively different expectation.

 

[Remathilis]

There are so many things that players choose not to do because they might disrupt the flow of the game. I don't see it as being a massively different expectation.

And the game has been getting better at removing those kinds of things from the core gameplay of the classes. Which is why the paladin doesn't have to be a goodie two shoes to keep his powers, the thief got rebranded to rogue, and barbarians stopped needing to kill wizards on site. We don't need a necromancer who is encouraged by his class to summon a legion of the dead but then told "you can have a little skeleton, as a treat".

Good example: I played in a one shot game at a meetup years ago. The DM was running an undead laden game, but I didn't know that. The title was something spooky so I asked if I could play a radiant servant of Pelor prc. A prestige class that grants greater turn undead 3+Wis mod per day, making all undead explode if they fail. Every encounter was with undead. After three encounters, I stopped using my power because I wanted everyone else to have a chance to act in combat. And it sucked too both know that I could end any fight whenever I wanted and that I shouldn't because I wanted everyone else to have fun.

Bad design. Bad feels.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Designed a game aspect that is obviously broken or disruptive with a disclaimer that it is obviously broken or disruptive and that players much promise not to abuse it is a bad public commercial sales strategy.

That's why no one does it.

MHP weakened their necromancer class so that being disruptive is harder.

It might be disruptive, to certain playstyles, especially if pushed hard in a selfish way. You are assuming guaranteed disaster.

Did MHP weaken the class when they ported it to DDB? I mentioned above I don't know what they did with it for 5.5. I cut ties with the company when they decided to water down their content further (it was IMO already a bit underpowered) to fit it into 5.5 new design paradigm.

 

[Minigiant]

might be disruptive, to certain playstyles, especially if pushed hard in a selfish way. You are assuming guaranteed disaster

I'm assuming intelligent play or play by the rules.

By the rules, every undead minions is supposed to finish their movement and take their action before the next can.

So if you have 6 zombies, 3 ghouls, and a spirit, you are by the rules supposed to take 11 turns per round. And you are allowed by the rules to evaluate all your possible actions each turn.

It's a house rule and short cut to make them move and roll at the same time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Have fun playing your Solo game then, because you obliviously won't need the rest of the party.

Gee, tell is how you really feel (but please speak for yourself).

 

[Micah Sweet]

And the game has been getting better at removing those kinds of things from the core gameplay of the classes. Which is why the paladin doesn't have to be a goodie two shoes to keep his powers, the thief got rebranded to rogue, and barbarians stopped needing to kill wizards on site. We don't need a necromancer who is encouraged by his class to summon a legion of the dead but then told "you can have a little skeleton, as a treat".

Good example: I played in a one shot game at a meetup years ago. The DM was running an undead laden game, but I didn't know that. The title was something spooky so I asked if I could play a radiant servant of Pelor prc. A prestige class that grants greater turn undead 3+Wis mod per day, making all undead explode if they fail. Every encounter was with undead. After three encounters, I stopped using my power because I wanted everyone else to have a chance to act in combat. And it sucked too both know that I could end any fight whenever I wanted and that I shouldn't because I wanted everyone else to have fun.

Bad design. Bad feels.

Are you saying that Prestige class shouldn't exist in the game?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm assuming intelligent play or play by the rules.

By the rules, every undead minions is supposed to finish their movement and take their action before the next can.

So if you have 6 zombies, 3 ghouls, and a spirit, you are by the rules supposed to take 11 turns per round. And you are allowed by the rules to evaluate all your possible actions each turn.

It's a house rule and short cut to make them move and roll at the same time.

Then make it a not-house rule if your concern is commercial viability.

Or, you know, houserule your game. Your game at your table is the important thing. No one here works for WotC after all, as far as I know.