The Worship Points System

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Buddha mate!

Not a problem man.

Appreciated nonetheless!

Btw I happen to like your way of handling the effectiveness of armor.

Thanks!

It will be a lot clearer when its all laid out in the WPS, though the concept itself is really pretty simple.

Ea's formula gave me a headache.

It was overtly complicated.

In -Ea-'s defence I think he was on a quest for perfection - an unneccessary endeavour under the circumstances of such a subjective concept (Challenge Ratings). The interview with Monte Cook also has him preaching simplicity (see his comments about Rolemaster and Aftermath), something I advocate myself.

 

[-Eä-]

Greetings fellows!

Hey, don't be so harsh! I enjoy devising formulae for almost anything. For me it is simpler, and probably for some other people as well... Perfection or not, I need only type 3462 on my calculator to get a general peak at the CR, where you have to consult a table (-;

Anyhow, back to what is important. I don't think every piercing weapon should half the NA, only ranged ones. Making it available to melee weapons as well would probably be unbalancing, as almost everyone would choose to have loads of piercing weapons (and probably specialising in using them as well)

Personally, I think a feat as "Skill Shot" is not realistic... The skill shot will reflect the ability to strike at a critical point and is therefore difficult to accomplish. Personally I mean a feat more like adding damage in dice at the expense of the chance of hitting would be more appropriate and in line with ranged attacks. For example: At the expense of 4 BAB, you get a 1d6 extra damage, or perhaps at the expense of 3, 1d4... This is on average less than the melee equivalent.

I'm still striving to find an elementary function for XP, but alas, I do not have the appropriate calculus resources at the moment )-: And while some may say it isn't worth the effort (-; I enjoy making those... Perhaps I'll publish all my formulae on a website...

 

[Buddha the DM]

Sorry Ea. It's just that I was never all that good at higher end math like that.

U_K: I look forward to seeing the WPS when it finally becomes available.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Here is something I tried to post about 8 hours ago and since.

Greetings fellows!

Hi -Eä- mate!

Hey, don't be so harsh! I enjoy devising formulae for almost anything. For me it is simpler, and probably for some other people as well...

Maybe for those well versed in calculus or advanced mathematiques!?

Perfection or not, I need only type 3462 on my calculator to get a general peak at the CR, where you have to consult a table (-;

Well I don't need to consult a table. For me its a bit like working out ability score modifiers, initially you will want to refer to the books but after only a short time it becomes second nature.

Anyhow, back to what is important. I don't think every piercing weapon should half the NA, only ranged ones. Making it available to melee weapons as well would probably be unbalancing, as almost everyone would choose to have loads of piercing weapons (and probably specialising in using them as well)

That may even be simpler!?

I'll do some more testing on this point tonight and see whats best.

Admittedly rewriting all weapon damages/criticals would be the most balancing but I obviously don't want to go down that path!

Personally, I think a feat as "Skill Shot" is not realistic... The skill shot will reflect the ability to strike at a critical point and is therefore difficult to accomplish. Personally I mean a feat more like adding damage in dice at the expense of the chance of hitting would be more appropriate and in line with ranged attacks. For example: At the expense of 4 BAB, you get a 1d6 extra damage, or perhaps at the expense of 3, 1d4... This is on average less than the melee equivalent.

Perhaps sacrificing 2 BAB/1 Damage will work better. I only came up with the Feat a few days ago.

I'm still striving to find an elementary function for XP, but alas, I do not have the appropriate calculus resources at the moment )-: And while some may say it isn't worth the effort (-; I enjoy making those... Perhaps I'll publish all my formulae on a website...

Even if people don't use the formula at least they will get an education trying to understand it!

Hi Buddha mate!

U_K: I look forward to seeing the WPS when it finally becomes available.

Thanks I appreciate the interest!

 

[Avatar of the North]

can't use a fine creature as a basis. There is an entire catagory of creatures with the same biological make as fine insects. Its called the Vermin catagory. They all have exoskeletons and are based on the same princibles as their fine size counter parts. That outer 'armor' IS their skeleton. You take that away a vermin has no way of breathing without magical aid. Also remember that Thri-kreen are a large sized creature that i would call a vermin. The 2e darksun book that was a guide to thri-kreen had lots of bad things that happened to the poor guys if thier chiten was ever damaged.

some stuff from the Thri-kreen of athas

"A thri-kreen's muscles rest along the inside of the chitin seg-
ments, and attach by tendons to other chitin segments. " -pg 23

so you remove the chitin armor guess what? Thri-kreen can nolonger move his limbs.

"Besides damage to chitin, a thri-kreen can suffer other
injuries as well. A broken chitin segment must be set, like a bro-
ken bone in a human, and eventually heals. "

Headings Wounds and Chitin

"Breaks: The lajav weapon actually crack in two the exoskele-
ton of a limb.This is much like a compound fracture in a
human, only much more serious . The limb is useless until
healed, and must be properly set, or permanent penalties will
result . If the limb is a leg, the movement rate has a -3 penalty; if an arm, then all attacks involving that arm (melee and missile) are at a -1 penalty. Natural healing time for a properly set break is 2d4 week." -pg 43

Again showing the Chitin serves the exact same function as a human skeleton.

Chitin rot (a disease thri-kreen can get in humid climates)
For each day spent in a moist or humid area,
such as Forest Ridge, a thri-kreen risk contracting a nasty fun-
gal condition known as chitin-rot. The chitin becomes dull
and streaked with gray; and itches painfully.
The base chance is 2%, cumulative each day of exposure
(2% on the first day, 4% on the second, etc.). Chitin-rot can be
cured with a cure disease spell. It also clears up within about a
week (2d4 days) after the thri-kreen returns to an arid region.
Besides making the thri-kreen's chitin itch (negating any
bonuses for high Dexterity), chitin-rot also gives the thri-kreen
a +2 penalty to Armor Class for as long as the disease lasts.

Just an interesting fact (or at least i think). Doesnt really add much to my arguement for insect/vermin natural armor shouldn't penalize dex.

"The gythka is a polearm with a three-bladed head at each end.
(skip abit to get to the important part).... A common configuration attaches a chatkcha to one end of the shaft, with a standard gythka head at the other end. The chatkcha is usually set with one blade pointing parallel to the staff; on occasion, it is set with a blade perpendicular to the shaft . This configuration, when swung properly, can better pierce the chitin of an insect or another thri-kreen.. (skip a bit more)..... A successful attack (on a called shot) opens a hole in the opponent's chitin; each such hit a inflicts normal damage, plus a +l Armor Class [stupid 2e Armor class system] penalty (to a maximum base of Armor Class 10 before magical, psionic, and Dexterity adjustments). Healing time is 1d4 week, unless accelerated by magic or psionics." (note Ko also work similarly to this for putting holes in Chitin)

This shows one of the bad things about having natural armor such as that of the thri-kreen. Its fairly easy to injure if your opponent has the right tools

Just a few reasons of mine that dex penalty for natural armor doesn't work for all creatures

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Avatar mate!

can't use a fine creature as a basis. There is an entire catagory of creatures with the same biological make as fine insects. Its called the Vermin catagory.

Okay lets take a look at Vermin as detailed in the MM:

For use in comparisons lets look at all Medium Size Vermin - since we can compare their (literal) natural armour directly to (actual) armour.

Giant Ant: NA +7 (eq. half plate) Dex 10
Giant Bee: NA +2 (eq. leather) Dex 14
Giant Bombardier Beetle: NA +6 (eq. splint mail) Dex 10
Giant Centipede: NA +2 (eq. leather) Dex 15
Giant Scorpion: NA +4 (eq. scale mail) Dex 10
Giant Spider: NA +1 (eq. padded) Dex 17

Coincidently enough, the relationship between NA and Dex fully supports my hypothesis that armour reduces Dex. A perfect correlation in fact.

They all have exoskeletons and are based on the same princibles as their fine size counter parts. That outer 'armor' IS their skeleton. You take that away a vermin has no way of breathing without magical aid. Also remember that Thri-kreen are a large sized creature that i would call a vermin. The 2e darksun book that was a guide to thri-kreen had lots of bad things that happened to the poor guys if thier chiten was ever damaged.

Are you sure Thri-kreen are Large size in 3rd Ed? (I don't know myself - I am just asking)

Just an interesting fact (or at least i think). Doesnt really add much to my arguement for insect/vermin natural armor shouldn't penalize dex.

"The gythka is a polearm with a three-bladed head at each end.
(skip abit to get to the important part).... A common configuration attaches a chatkcha to one end of the shaft, with a standard gythka head at the other end. The chatkcha is usually set with one blade pointing parallel to the staff; on occasion, it is set with a blade perpendicular to the shaft . This configuration, when swung properly, can better pierce the chitin of an insect or another thri-kreen.. (skip a bit more).....

Thereby reinforcing that piercing weapons should halve any armour bonus!

A successful attack (on a called shot) opens a hole in the opponent's chitin; each such hit a inflicts normal damage, plus a +l Armor Class [stupid 2e Armor class system] penalty (to a maximum base of Armor Class 10 before magical, psionic, and Dexterity adjustments). Healing time is 1d4 week, unless accelerated by magic or psionics." (note Ko also work similarly to this for putting holes in Chitin)

In 3rd Ed. you could determine the effects better by reducing Dex by 1.

This shows one of the bad things about having natural armor such as that of the thri-kreen. Its fairly easy to injure if your opponent has the right tools

I seem to recall Thri-Kreens are based (slightly) on the Preying Mantis, so lets look at the entry for Preying Mantis in the MM:

Large Vermin
NA +6
Dex 8

Reverse engineering its natural armour shows us that its effectiveness lies between leather and studded leather (2.66)

Just a few reasons of mine that dex penalty for natural armor doesn't work for all creatures

You have made a good case against showing that Vermin 'armour' is not very effective armour (and consequently wouldn't reduce Dex by much).

But not against the fact that the heavier the armour the more Dex is reduced.

As a wise Scotsman once said "You cannay change the laws of physics!"

 

[Ashardalon]

Still Ashardalon ...

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you mate!

Thank you, Upper_Krust!

If I can't convince anyone that its a good idea then I must be explaining it incorrectly!?

Maybe there was some misunderstanding? I actually like your idea!

Regarding Three-Krin: They are Medium-Size, and have a natural amor of +5. They can be found on page 9 of the PsiHB Web Enhancement that also has gem dragons and su-monsters.



The Perry-Rhodan thread will proably come monday, no matter if I can post as Knight Otu or not.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Ashardalon mate!

Still Ashardalon ...

Maybe there was some misunderstanding? I actually like your idea!

I knew that. I guess I was just being rhetorical.

Regarding Three-Krin: They are Medium-Size, and have a natural amor of +5. They can be found on page 9 of the PsiHB Web Enhancement that also has gem dragons and su-monsters.

Thanks!

The Perry-Rhodan thread will proably come monday, no matter if I can post as Knight Otu or not.

I'll be interested in seeing what you cook up from the crazy Perry Rhodan Universe!?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Portfolios in the WPS

Here is the full list of Deity Portfolios detailed in the WPS (40 in total). Each has an opposed Portfolio (eg. Mountain and Sky).

Remember that for players the DM chooses 1 portfolio and the player the other (provided it is not opposed). Remember also that you can gain the same Portfolio twice. By my reckoning this means 1522 possible combinations.

Arts
Chaos
Charity
Crafts
Darkness
Death
Disease
Entropy
Evil
Fear
Fire
Good
Knowledge
Labour
Law
Life
Love
Luck
Madness
Magic
Moon
Mountain
Nature
Peace
Revenge
Science
Sea
Secrets
Skill
Sky
Stoicism
Strength
Sun
Thievery
Thunder
Time
Understanding
War
Wealth
Winter

Note that all the Portfolios have secondary aspects, eg. the Sky portfolio is also used for 'Wind' gods or gods of Spring.

Another point is that there is also (at least) one True Dweomer attributed to each Portfolio...but no point revealing those at this time!

Any Comments!?

 

[kkoie]

Re: Portfolios in the WPS

Quite an impressive list, I do have some questions though.

Remember also that you can gain the same Portfolio twice.

What would be the advantage of the same portfolio twice?

Entropy

What exactly is Entropy? If you go by the dictionary Entropy is just another word for Chaos, and I saw chaos already in the list.

Understanding

Isn't understanding covered under Knowledge? (or vis versa) or is Understanding the "wisdom" portfolio?

Also, I didn't see Earth included, or is that covered under Mountain?

And if we are doing gods portfolio's, ya gotta have Firtility somewhere in there my man Firtility Goddesses are some of the oldest known to man. Unless you are lumping Firtility in with Love or Life or both?

K Koie