D&D 4E The WotC designers will be bashing 4e once 5e is announced . . .

[Piratecat]

ShadeyDM, Whizbang -- enough. Stop hijacking the thread, please.

 

[MerricB]

A huge one is monster design. I remember the early days of 3e how everyone was raving about the brilliance of "intuitive" monster stats in 3e and how "finally" monsters and PCs had the same rules governing their design.

Now they trumpet what is, essentially, a return to the monster design philosophy of AD&D 1e/2e. And everyone cheers!

No, in fact it's nowhere near 1e/2e.

A lot of the design in 3e was informed by legacy issues from 1e/2e, which really mucked up some of the monsters (devils and demons in particular, but the ogre mage also comes to mind).

The part that is near 1e/2e in monster design will be that monster statblocks aren't the same as PC statblocks. However, *everything else* about those monsters will be designed differently than AD&D! They'll still have feats and ability scores, spell-like abilities will be replaced by written-out abilities, and the concept of monster balance vs PCs is still very alive and well. It's just that the idea of CR=the level 4 PCs should be is being jettisoned as to CR=the level 1 PC should be...

Cheers!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

It wasn't that long ago that if you posted "I don't like the Pokemount" in the general rpg forum you had dozens of posters with pitch forks and torches outside your door acting as if you had been sewing together and animating dead bodies. Its funny how quickly things can change in just a few weeks.

um i still like animal companions, summons and paladin mounts. I would like that to continue into 4e if it can.

 

[Shadeydm]

ShadeyDM, Whizbang -- enough. Stop hijacking the thread, please.

If you have a problem with moderation, email the moderator. Don't post about it in the thread. ~ Piratecat

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If they come out and list the things that they feel don't work well, they're "bashing their own game".

And if they stayed silent, and gave no reasoning at all for most of the changes, would they get a good reception? No, then it would be grist for the "change for the sake of putting out a money-grubbing edition" argument!

So, if they justify themselves, they get pounced on. If they don't, same thing. How are these guys supposed to win?

They can only win by making such a frigging great game that nobody cares about what they said and did before.
Or in short, they can't really succeed, but they will probably also not lose totally.


And I also doubt that the designers and developers are just following a corporate line.
During their game development, they constantly look at D&D 3.x and check its shortcomings, and the more they analyze it, the more they will dislike these shortcomings - it is constantly in their face (even if it would just be a corner case in a real game).
But more importantly:
They are creating a new game, and that's a lot more fun and interesting than fixing or enhancing an existing one. (At least if you know that it will be published and played).

I guess everybody that builds something (abstract or physical) knows that creating something new is a lot more fun than repairing something (especially if you do it for a purpose).

 

[Andor]

The WotC designers will be bashing 4e once 5e is announced . . .

Yeah, but 5e will be designed by our Mutant Cockroach Overlords and they bash everything designed by humans.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

A lot of the design in 3e was informed by legacy issues from 1e/2e, which really mucked up some of the monsters (devils and demons in particular, but the ogre mage also comes to mind).

Funny how no one said that back in 2000. Heh heh. But, you know, since 4e is coming, I guess it's now fashionable to say things like, "Man, those legacy issues sure mucked up lots of the 3e monsters."

"We have always been at war with Eurasia!"

Cheers!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It wasn't that long ago that if you posted "I don't like the Pokemount" in the general rpg forum you had dozens of posters with pitch forks and torches outside your door acting as if you had been sewing together and animating dead bodies. Its funny how quickly things can change in just a few weeks.

I'd like to know where all these "Pokemount" supporters were whenever I posted about how I liked them, and felt they emulated old tales of knights, stuff like Baron Munchausen, or even the Lone Ranger. Because I certainly seemed to be the only one with anything positive to say about the subject.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

A huge one is monster design. I remember the early days of 3e how everyone was raving about the brilliance of "intuitive" monster stats in 3e and how "finally" monsters and PCs had the same rules governing their design.

Now they trumpet what is, essentially, a return to the monster design philosophy of AD&D 1e/2e. And everyone cheers!

"We have always been at war with Eurasia."

If anything about 4e has given me pause, it's this issue. I don't like the idea of returning to the old way of monster design. But I'm willing to wait and actually see if the change is as great as many seem to think before I make a decision.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd like to know where all these "Pokemount" supporters were whenever I posted about how I liked them, and felt they emulated old tales of knights, stuff like Baron Munchausen, or even the Lone Ranger. Because I certainly seemed to be the only one with anything positive to say about the subject.

Nope, I defended it too, because I really like it. You and me -- lone points of light in the darkness!