D&D 4E The WotC designers will be bashing 4e once 5e is announced . . .

[Raven Crowking]

If they come out and list the things that they feel don't work well, they're "bashing their own game".

And if they stayed silent, and gave no reasoning at all for most of the changes, would they get a good reception? No, then it would be grist for the "change for the sake of putting out a money-grubbing edition" argument!

So, if they justify themselves, they get pounced on. If they don't, same thing. How are these guys supposed to win?

Discussing the things that don't work well with a game you enjoy isn't, IMHO, "bashing their own game". It is a necessary part of the process of making it better. It was part of the process of 1e that made getting each issue of Dragon, with its varient rules, so worthwhile. New ideas were touted, designers admitted that things didn't work as well as they had hoped (and often suggested improvements!) and there was a gradual evolution of design. Eventually, this evolution culminated in new books.

You can see a similar thing in the 3e UA, where designers describe their house rules and why they use them.

IMHO, the only "weird doublethink" happens when (1) you declare that aspects X, Y, and Z are a clear improvement over their predecessors, (2) never vary from that declaration, and then (3) change said aspects back toward their predecessors while (4) declaring them a clear improvement over the previous version that was itself a clear improvement over what you are going back toward.

Overall, I think that there is a lot to be interested in in the bits of 4e that they are showing us -- and I certainly didn't expect to feel that way. I expected 4e to be 3.X TO THE MAX!!! when it seems instead to be at least partially a pulling back from 3.x toward earlier design philosophies.

Of course, WotC might have more credibility if the rumours of 4e were not being vehemently denied at the same time that the announcement was being prepared.

RC

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

First of all, there may be people at WotC who don't like 4e much, but oddly enough I don't think they will be handed developer responsibilities for it, and they certainly won't be asked to represent the company in public.

Who knows, some of the 4e bashers on this site might be WotC employees who are intelligent enough to not announce their affiliation while tearing down the company initiative.

And I don't care if people don't call out the flaws in the current system, whatever it may be. If the WotC designers did that publicly for the past several years, there would have been even more doomsaying and negativity than there is now. Might as well work with what you have and try and emphasize the positive publicly, while working behind the scenes to develop solutions to those problems at a later time. D&D isn't a product that can harm or kill people, you aren't going to be lauded for your courage for calling out its problems like a whistleblower.

 

[cerberus2112]

Notice that all the WOTC D&D people are rabidly enthusiastic about 4E and nary a nay sayer in sight? That doesn't usually happen like that in real life. Ergo - the party line.

Actually, that does happen in this industry. We're all fanboys first. I design for the Legend of the Five Rings card game, and I'm that wildly enthusiastic about it. I loved the previous edition, but I think the edition I'm making right now is so much better! So, I for one, believe that all the designers working on D&D 4E now are extremely thrilled to be writing the game, and they believe they're doing a good job at it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I for one, believe that all the designers working on D&D 4E now are extremely thrilled to be writing the game, and they believe they're doing a good job at it.

I think that you are probably right.

Moreover, I think that they are probably doing a better job than I had expected. Which is sort of humbling (albeit not humbling enough!)

RC

 

[hexgrid]

I don't know about the rest of the team, but Mike Mearls was pointing out areas of 3e that could use improvement before he even started working at WotC.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I don't know about the rest of the team, but Mike Mearls was pointing out areas of 3e that could use improvement before he even started working at WotC.

I do believe you are correct. And, if memory serves, he wrote those articles about rewriting iconic monsters that I disagreed with.....

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

We'll go through it again in eight years or so, when 5e gets announced.

I hope that compared to what they should be pulling in from the DI, a new edition in 8 years will not be a financial necessity, at least.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

First of all, there may be people at WotC who don't like 4e much, but oddly enough I don't think they will be handed developer responsibilities for it, and they certainly won't be asked to represent the company in public.

Who knows, some of the 4e bashers on this site might be WotC employees who are intelligent enough to not announce their affiliation while tearing down the company initiative.

It's possible, but it is equally possible (if not *more* possible) that some of the cheerleaders on this site are also WotC employees not announcing their affiliation.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's possible, but it is equally possible (if not *more* possible) that some of the cheerleaders on this site are also WotC employees not announcing their affiliation.

If the employees who are supposed to be talking to the community barely have time to do it, I think it's a stretch to think the folks busy with, you know, creating 4E have time to work as secret agents.

 

[Shadeydm]

So what happened to all your we all happily agree on the Pokemount threads my lawn ornament friend? I believe its time to as you say show your cards no?