The WOW method to monsters? Would you hate it?

[hexgrid]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of Gundark's original post...

The way I read it, he's not talking about the concept of advancing monsters itself, he's talking about the idea that the monsters encountered by the PC's always just happen to be appropriate for the power level of the characters, internal consistency of the world be damned.

 

[Psion]

I don't like "Tribes of 12th level Gnolls", but I have no problem with a 12th level Gnoll who is the leader of a tribe.

Er, yeah, I guess I should emphasize that I don't see 50 12th level Gnolls. Perhaps a small band of notorious gnoll marauders (aka adventurers. ).

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Yeah, you'd have to have a good reason for there being a tribe/large group of such high-level low-level creatures. Perhaps they are an interplanar mercanary band hired by the BBEG to do a specific task in the area... or maybe they're the surivors of some HUGE conflict from far away... they're the survivors.

As long as there's some semi-logical reason for them being there, then no problem at all. Imagine the havoc they could wreak. What effects would the presence of a band of 12-level gnolls have on your campaign locality. Sounds very interesting to me.

 

[Pants]

As long as there is a reason for them to be there, I guess I wouldn't mind. Though a town of 100 lvl 12 Gnolls and level 10 Gnoll Children would bug me.

I would, however, love to stat up some of the critters from WoW. Some of them are just freakin cool.

 

[Victim]

WoW characters never really progress above level 12 or so in DnD terms anyway. A full group of 20th level DnD characters has a decent chance againsst Great Wyrm dragons. You need a big raid of maxxed level WoW characters for the same feat. Stadard guards in DnD are no where near the max level.

I really hate the level distribution demographics in MMORPGs. Total suspension of disbelief destruction. That level 30 or so school teacher wandering around in SW is rather annoying.

 

[der_kluge]

I prefer a little normality in this area.

It's what used to bug me about Nintendo games. You start in city A, and outside that city were 1st level creatures. Then, inexplicably, the further away you got from city A, the more dangerous the creatures became. That's fine, to a degree, but other cities are out there, too. So, you'd fight and fight, and go up in levels, retreat to the city to rest, and whatnot, and then go further and further out, and then manage to get to city B, where you had to fight 5th level monsters to get to it. All I can say is - damn, I feel sorry for all those 1st level people trying to leave city B! Sucks to be them!

 

[Pants]

I prefer a little normality in this area.

It's what used to bug me about Nintendo games. You start in city A, and outside that city were 1st level creatures. Then, inexplicably, the further away you got from city A, the more dangerous the creatures became. That's fine, to a degree, but other cities are out there, too. So, you'd fight and fight, and go up in levels, retreat to the city to rest, and whatnot, and then go further and further out, and then manage to get to city B, where you had to fight 5th level monsters to get to it. All I can say is - damn, I feel sorry for all those 1st level people trying to leave city B! Sucks to be them!

That's what bugs me about Final Fantasy (and some other) games.

Hey, we're level 46, we can handle this, it's just a wolf and a plant!

But wait, it's a red wolf and a purple plant! Oh crap, we're screwed!

At least with MMORPG's, there's a built in design reason for the totally f**ked up level distributions. There's certain constraints built into the game because of its MM properties. Single player RPG's have much more leeway in what they can do, but it always feels like some are just lazy with regards to challenging players.

"We need a new monster... hm, I'll just paint this old one purple, double its HP, and give it a bunch of spells..."
Bah.

 

[gizmo33]

Would the WoW system bother you in D&D? Would seeing a tribe of 12th level Gnolls utterly bug you? What is your opinion?

Yes and yes.

As a DM I prefer to settle on my demographics ahead of time. I expect high level characters to eventually move away from gnolls and towards outer-planar creatures and dragons. A few gnolls of 12th level or higher make sense as leaders, but anything more is like having a tribe of 12th level humans. It doesn't bother me that 12th level characters don't fight gnolls anymore than it bothers me that 1st level characters don't fight dragons.

 

[arscott]

At the same time, the adventure's for 18th level characters (IIRC), so they're still not much of a challenge except in large groups. The real threats are the high-level party that the orcs are working for.

That Adventure (The Thunder Below) makes for a really interesting study in monster advancement. I don't think there's a single creature in their that hasn't been advanced via HD, Templates, Class levels, or Age categories. And yet I think that it's done in a way that make sense, and creates a coherent, interesting, and challenging adventure.

 

[Gundark]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of Gundark's original post...

The way I read it, he's not talking about the concept of advancing monsters itself, he's talking about the idea that the monsters encountered by the PC's always just happen to be appropriate for the power level of the characters, internal consistency of the world be damned.

THANK YOU....

yes I know that you can advance monsters etc etc...I've played 3rd ed. long enough to know that.... . Hexgrid hit the nail on the head with what I was asking. So far I have done orcs, gnolls and goblins like what most people said that they have done (leader with levels...low level warriors, etc). I've been playing WoW for some time and was like "gee it's fun with WoW would it be fun with D&D", like many have pointed out 3.X lets you do that. Admittedly the problem of the "dissapearing monsters" has a less of an effect with 3.X. What I was thinking is for example is that if the party is 10th level the warriors of the Orc tribe might be 8th level warriors. I think that NPC classes are ideal for this, the actual character classes IMO should be for the "Boss NPCs"

I know that there is an "internal consistency" that many feel needs to be maintained. But really does it? The logic can be applied on the other end of the spectrum, why do all the high level monsters hide out until the PCs are ready to take them. If you think about it, if you want realism characters/monsters wouldn't know what "level" they are. A group of 10th level adventrues while talented isn't going to know "gee we' re 10th level we shoud be able to wipe that whole Orc tribe". If it was "real" they would use caution not march into the middle of the camp and start swinging.