Themes article up

[UngeheuerLich]

They add a third encounter power at level 1... so a little bit power creep is there... the wizard adept dazing power is actually very powerful... but level 1 PC´s actually could need that bit of help...

 

[Obryn]

You shouldn't need to do anything. They don't add more power to PCs, just more options.

These do add more power - more than the Dark Sun themes did. But they still probably don't add so much that you'll need to compensate for them.

Unless, that is, everyone takes Order Adept and everyone snags Wizard utilities every single level. I mean, I think it'd be great to have Illusory Walls every single fight. Likewise, I think it's awesome if every Fighter can grab stoneskin. Or that everyone in the world snags Shield. Yes, all of that was sarcasm.

-O

 

[GMforPowergamers]

These do add more power - more than the Dark Sun themes did. But they still probably don't add so much that you'll need to compensate for them.

Unless, that is, everyone takes Order Adept and everyone snags Wizard utilities every single level. I mean, I think it'd be great to have Illusory Walls every single fight. Likewise, I think it's awesome if every Fighter can grab stoneskin. Or that everyone in the world snags Shield. Yes, all of that was sarcasm.

-O

yes becuse when my warden calls shield my DM will cry... such sweet tears. I already have the lock down going, and an AC 6 points higher then the next hgihest in the group and 10 pts over the shaman. I second wind and jump 5 more... then when he goes to hit me I intrupt for 4 more...

 

[Mengu]

I see themes as being more fun than optimization oriented, though with a small but flavorful mechanical benefit. As such, I am pleased with most of the offerings.

Alchemist - This one is probably my least favorite of the lot, but I can see a Cleric of Erathis who tinkers in alchemy, and makes vials of holy water, and woundpatches at every opportunity.

Animal Master - For a thief I was thinking of starting, this theme lets me pick a monkey with a fez. I get to have a monkey with a fez. For free. And once in a while it screams to distract my enemy as I charge them. It's beyond awesome. Oh yeah, I'll be from Calimshan without a doubt. At higher levels being able to bluff a tiger into not eating me is just gravy. This is easily my favorite theme of the lot.

Order Adept - Many campaign worlds have many orders where this theme would fit right in, providing both hooks, and benefits. I think the theme would be quite fitting for a tiefling swordmage, perhaps a guardian of a secret order of arcanists. Out of the gate the character gets a ranged power, and it doesn't really hurt him to walk right into the zone either. I do agree with some of the others who brought up that the wizard utility and +2 to will being powerful, compared to benefits of other themes. I think I would be okay with a feat, that had the theme as a prerequisite, and gave a power swap wizard utility, and an untyped +1 bonus to will. I think +2 arcana at level 5, +4 at level 10 are sufficient benefits, based on what we are seeing so far.

Wizard's Apprentice - Can't think of anything better for a Hogwarts student. The encounter power is perfect. The magic item is likely to be a trinket, but there are quite a few good ones, like if your teacher cares about your safety, she might send you a defensive staff or a shielding dagger that you could off-hand.

The utility powers are a bit of a waste of space I think. I can understand how one can cross roles with theme powers, so there are dangers in making the powers on par with what classes get straight up, but they should be at least on par with skill powers, which I don't feel they are at the moment. They captured good flavor with some (like Aqua Regia, Timely Trick, and Disappear), but the power levels leave something to be desired (like Disappear could easily last till end of next turn).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The order adept is a perfect fit for a fighter that multiclasses to wizard. Beeing able to chose wizard utilities is the most important part of wizard multiclass... i like that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Animal Master - For a thief I was thinking of starting, this theme lets me pick a monkey with a fez. I get to have a monkey with a fez. For free. And once in a while it screams to distract my enemy as I charge them. It's beyond awesome. Oh yeah, I'll be from Calimshan without a doubt. At higher levels being able to bluff a tiger into not eating me is just gravy.




turn).

just as long as he understands " touch nothing but the lamp"

 

[JoeGKushner]

It's fairly easy to say that the game has changed since Essentials. I don't know if you can argue otherwise and "essentiallizing" things has really hurt a lot of their recent offerings in that they're shadows of their former selves.

IMO (and from what I've read a lot of others) it's lazy design. They could've either done two sets of themes, 1 for pre-e and 1 for regular e classes (the ones not getting e/u/d powers), which would've worked better and kept up the excellent offering they did with DS.

Maybe instead of attacking the poster you could try to see where he (and as I said before others) are coming from. IF it doesn't bother you or you don't see anything wrong, great, nothing anyone here can say can affect your enjoyment one bit.

If it's really bugging you there's a handy ignore button that lets you turn off their posts.

To do this, they would have to acknowledge that Essentials is a .5 edition and that despite the ease of use with the two systems, the differences going forward will become more and more pronounced.

As the timeliness of the support is well, not there for the most part, especially in terms of Dragon and Dungeon hiting their dates, the likely hood of them doing two systems, when according to many, there is only one system, seems slim to nill.

 

[The Little Raven]

I like these. Order Adept needs some tweaking, but all in all, I prefer these to the DS Themes, which were just a power list with a couple paragon paths and feats. These also avoid the problems the previous ones had with power swaps and psionic power points.

 

[Jools]

You could say - perhaps cruelly - they are essentialized themes. This isn't really what I was so excited for at all and I entirely agree with your arguments Blue. The Dark Sun themes were so great, what was wrong with keeping to the same general structure and idea?

It was mentioned around the time of Dark Sun that the threats of that world were a little greater than that of the other D&D worlds, and that the DS themes partially redressed that imbalance. So it makes sense if these ones aren't quite as strong. If so, I'm glad of it. Last thing we want is even newer monster manual math to allow the monsters to catch up.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

No attack powers beyond level 1 to swap :/ Guess they had to fit in with essentials somehow. I really don't know how to feel about this. I can't help but be disappointed they don't offer the same options as the DS themes do. I am wondering if these themes will get paragon paths and some feats as well. Probably not.

I guess I don't understand why it is always bad when the devs adjust course a bit. They've had almost a year of experience with DS themes.

As to the themes themselves: Alchemist will be useless until we can create the vast majority of uncommon alchemy items (alchemy has 1 common item now, it's in the article IIRC). It's relatively nice though and I think isn't a bad choice.

I think this is a bad reading of the rules personally. Alchemical Items are NOT MAGIC ITEMS. The description of Alchemy in AV1 says that outright. Beyond that there is some 'advisory text' in the RC stating that Uncommon and Rare items not made in modern times. It isn't actually a RULE. Beyond that Essentials doesn't HAVE rituals, and thus has no way to craft items to start with, so that text really is more a fluff statement about how the world works. At most it says "you can't buy uncommon rare MAGIC items normally". Enchant Magic Item itself has NOT been errated to make any statement about rarity, nor has Brew Potion, nor has the Alchemy feat.

Thus I disagree that you can't make uncommon Alchemical items. It would be reasonable to assume that the formulae for uncommon/rare Alchemical items are not available for sale, but even this is not clearly stated by any rule. What is clear is this kind of thing would be in the province of the DM (which it really always was anyway...).

Animal Master is just rubbish. That was a huge disappointment, I was hoping for something that worked well with sentinel druid or beastmaster ranger in some way.

I don't think Animal Master is rubbish. The whole issue of the 'glass animal' IS an issue. It certainly is a mechanically marginal package, though. Still, it is quite thematic. As we discussed with the Vampire, game elements which can't fulfill their role in enabling a character option that provides the proper CONCEPT is worthless. Mechanics must take a second seat to concept. This theme would be great in a variety of settings (particularly a less combat-oriented game that featured a lot of intrigue and such).

Order Adept is absolutely off the wall insane. Any character can get shield without needing to PMC! That's just frigging amazing! Not to mention it's got a solid controller power built into it as well! This one definitely needs some clarification: Do I get my normal fighter utility (or whatever) AND can get my wizard utility? Or do I have to powerswap a fighter utility for the wizard utility (it's not 100% clear from the article). Either way anyone has to appreciate just how damn good it will be for a defender to have access to shield. It's by far the strongest theme in the article.

I think I pretty much have to agree with you here. Except I would say that there's no real ambiguity. If you are an Order Adept and don't have a spell book you can select wizard utility powers just like they were utility powers of your own class. Nasty, and obviously someone didn't think this through at all. Personally I'd restrict it to level 2. Still problematic, but not completely off-the-wall insane.

Wizards Apprentice is really good as well and comes with a level 1 ranged daze power as well. The common item thing will be better once more are added into the game. Given commons tend to be IMO some of the better items, it's not a bad deal at all.

This one I have mixed feelings about. It is not OP, but is reasonably nice. OTOH nothing in it really says to me "Apprentice Wizard". I think a cantrip instead of an item would have worked better.

Overall a really mixed bag for me. I can't help but feel a bit disappointed as Animal Master is rubbish... again. What is with Wizards and making classes with Animal Companions specifically gimped? I'm not happy with gutting out the encounter and daily attack power swap choices, but whatever, essentials probably demanded that. The themes are pretty neat and flavorful though, but one could use a whack already with the nerf stick and a few others could use a distinct boost.

I think Order Adept aside the power level is OK. There are some very nice Alchemical items that are as useful as Color Orb. Wizards have other daze powers, and honestly at low levels daze is not that great. Non-wizards are not going to be using this at high levels anyway unless they are implement users, in which case they will have better things to do. A fighter picking it up? Yeah, kind of nifty but without an implement he won't be using it for that long, effectively, and if he had to burn his theme slot AND a feat for an implement just to use Color Orb? Meh.

Animal Master is definitely lower in combat power than the others, but it really isn't a big deal, and the character DOES gain a LOT in out-of-combat utility. Order Adept is going to need to lose the +2 WILL and the unlimited utility swap. That's the main complaint I can accept. I really think you might want to go do a stint as a game designer Aegeri, it ain't easy, trust me....