D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[mellored]

Also, with the warlock changes, you could simply have 1 big battle each day.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What exactly stops you from doing so?

Social pressure, mostly. Probably the rules if you're playing AL.

 

[Steampunkette]

Over here in Level Up Junction, we have a warlord (the Marshal class) and psionics (an  excellent 3pp book by our own @Steampunkette ). Our other classes are pretty great too. Come on in, the water's fine!

Appreciate the callout! <3

Level Up is great. One D&D is not so great, so far.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I’ve read only 1.5 pages of this thread and I’m beginning to think I’m the only person who likes these changes.

0 out of 10?? Come on dude, surely you’re being hyperbolic

The problem is a lot of people like the warlock mechanically precisely because it's not an othodox caster. That it gets the most fun parts of being a caster without all the tedious and irritating nonsense. This version does the opposite. It gives all the tedious and irritating nonsense while taking away the fun parts.

I like most of the changes by volume. But turning pact magic into generic off the peg half-casting when well over half of the mechanical appeal of a warlock was that they were casters who weren't that makes the changing the druid's wildshape into everything being generic look like a model of careful and well planned.

Evaluating the rest of the warlock changes is like evaluating the rest of the soup when there's a giant turd in it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, yes. The players can rest even if the DM says it’s risky. And then the DM sends in monsters to spoil the rest, because they did warn you. If the DM doesn’t want you to rest right then and there for whatever reason, it’s not happening.

Again, I think if the DM would rather TPK the party than let them take a needed short rest, that’s a DM problem not a warlock problem.

 

[Reef]

I understand there’s some strong feelings on this, but I think drawing lines in the sand (“0 out of 10!”) is counter productive. I know I’ve benefited a lot from the conversations over the last few days, and have gone from liking the changes to realizing my issue wasn’t Pact Magic but the recharge rate with short rests.

Refusing to engage with either side is doing the class a disservice. Even for those who think that Pact Magic is perfect, surely there’s the possibility that it could be tweaked to something even better?

 

[Charlaquin]

I’ve read only 1.5 pages of this thread and I’m beginning to think I’m the only person who likes these changes.

0 out of 10?? Come on dude, surely you’re being hyperbolic

I really like all of the changes… except the change from pact magic to half casting, which I dislike strongly enough to outweigh all the positive changes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The problem is that every class benefits from a long rest. Everything resets on them. HP, spells, class features, etc. However, short rests were specific to only certain classes (and races). Fighter, monk, and warlock all had important parts of their kit requiring short rests. Cleric, druid, and bard (after 5th level) got use out of them, but the ability was more situational and they had regular spellcasting to fall back on. Wizards, sorcerers and barbarians got almost no benefit, and the rogue had no resources to build so they only ever rest to heal.

Further, in my experience, I find groups are more likely to take short rests when they are banged up. If a group blows through some easy encounters with minimal damage, they feel compelled to keep going, even if they have used up short rest resources. So if you're the warlock, cast hex in the beginning of the day, and then you and your party get into a couple easy combats or encounters with good HP, they are less likely to wait an hour for you to get your spell back...

Ultimately, this was something that should have been seen coming. The changes to Tasha subclasses and dragonborn from per short rest to proficiency/day.

Seeing something coming is not the same as looking forward to it.

 

[Reef]

Again, I think if the DM would rather TPK the party than let them take a needed short rest, that’s a DM problem not a warlock problem.

So, it’s a DM problem if we can’t take a break in the middle of a multi-encounter chase scene? A prison break? A dungeon with monsters around every corner? Taking breaks depends very much on the adventure you’re playing. My DM likes to keep the pressure on, which means less opportunities for short rests.

And who decides it’s needed? My warlock is the only character who benefits at all from a short rest. Assuming hit point levels are okay, it’s usually easier to press on.

 

[Charlaquin]

I understand there’s some strong feelings on this, but I think drawing lines in the sand (“0 out of 10!”) is counter productive. I know I’ve benefited a lot from the conversations over the last few days, and have gone from liking the changes to realizing my issue wasn’t Pact Magic but the recharge rate with short rests.

Refusing to engage with either side is doing the class a disservice. Even for those who think that Pact Magic is perfect, surely there’s the possibility that it could be tweaked to something even better?

I agree. Personally, my plan is to respond to the polls exactly as I have expressed here: very satisfied with all of the changes except the half casting, with which I am very dissatisfied, and very dissatisfied with the class overall as a result. Also I’ll suggest the Channel Nature/Divinity recharge model as an alternative to half-casting that would be satisfying.