D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Aldarc]

The one upside I could see in the loss of pact magic for the warlock is that I think that it would open up the mechanical space for that exact same mechanic on a psion.

 

[mamba]

Yeah but Warlocks were definitely not intended to be the nova spell casting class. Quite the opposite.

They could go nova once and then are out of slots for the next fight, just like the other classes would. So you pace yourself, just like the others.

And despite that, they were hugely popular. Also, the power of this build would depend on spell access. The new version has access to the same spells as wizards. I don't think that is something I would want to implement but it would represent a massive boost to Warlock power with 6 slots.

depending on the number of short rests he managed to get before

 

[Pauln6]

They could go nova once and then are out of slots for the next fight, just like the other classes would. So you pace yourself, just like the others.



depending on the number of short rests he managed to get nefore

Resource management is part of the game. I usually get to take one and occasionally two short rests during an adventure but even with a magic wand, and the shadow touched feat, my PC still felt a bit light on spell choice/use. Different classes benefit more in different adventure styles but a good DM varies the type of adventure so they don't all operate to prevent short or long rests all the time. I ended up multi-classing into sorcerer.

 

[mamba]

Resource management is part of the game.

sure, but I do not see a need for one class to have 2 spells per short rest and the other 6 per long, that just arbitrarily restricts the first one and gains nothing, plus puts it on a different schedule, so nothing but downsides.

You can resource manage your 6 spells by not using them all up in the first encounter instead of the game hand-feeding you two each

 

[Bacon Bits]

so pick whatever makes sense for your game, no one says you have to stick to what is in the PHB or the DMG

OK. My table wants the default style of play presented by the PHB.

Oh, wait. The rest system in the default style of play presented in the PHB is kind of broken and multiple classes don't work well across the entire adventuring day outside of relatively narrow encounter day designs.

Perhaps we should ask WotC to consider a new edition that modifies, removes, or otherwise updates classes or the rest system to have a better overall design? I know they want to kind of unify the play experience and create their own VTT into one thing. Maybe they could buy D&D Beyond and call the whole thing "D&D One"?

 

[Pauln6]

sure, but I do not see a need for one class to have 2 spells per short rest and the other 6 per long, that just arbitrarily restricts the first one and gains nothing, plus puts it on a different schedule, so nothing but downsides.

You can resource manage your 6 spells by not using them all up in the first encounter instead of the game hand-feeding you two each

I think this argument is a bit disingenuous though. The game is collaborative. Often, people complaining that the DM doesn't let them short rest will be the same people complaining that the rest of the group won't agree to take a long rest. If players have a play style that treats their character as the star of the story, resource management of any kind is always going to be an issue e.g. we need to rest because I used my two spell slots to kill those goblins. Some adventures on the clock or in the heart of enemy territory can make short rests problematic but there are ways around that sometimes. It's always going to be a mixed back and you can't please all of the people all of the time.

OK. My table wants the default style of play presented by the PHB.

Oh, wait. The rest system in the default style of play presented in the PHB is kind of broken and multiple classes don't work well across the entire adventuring day outside of relatively narrow encounter day designs.

Perhaps we should ask WotC to consider a new edition that modifies, removes, or otherwise updates classes or the rest system to have a better overall design? I know they want to kind of unify the play experience and create their own VTT into one thing. Maybe they could buy D&D Beyond and call the whole thing "D&D One"?

I don't know what default game you are playing. We use the lowest form of short/long rest healing and our games, all of which include warlocks, seem to run just fine. Our warlocks rely heavily of their at wills, including at-will invocations, so the only things lacking for us are limited nova potential for fighters and warlocks, a few more spells or manoeuvres known, and maybe getting 3 warlock spell slots a bit earlier. The gap between expertise and non-expertise is a bit of a pain as well.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I really read carefully this time. Wow.

Warlock is almost all that I play anymore. It allows me to play a magic warrior and suited my need for options.

That said, playing non hexblade blade lock takes real understanding and skill. Now? It’s all right there for you.

Medium armor (no shield?) for free. No need for dwarf, no need to wait for a feat. No need to always start variant human. I think it will be easier to take a half orc (or it’s equivalent) without playing 1-4 with a poor AC. I hate the pressure to have high dex due to poor armor.

The invocation shortage is gone too. Thirsting blade is automatic. I can now take something more flavorful to make this blade lock different. I really like magic seekers. Maybe it will be eldritch sight.

Saving my spells for eldritch smite meant not casting much. With more spell slots I can do some utility spells. I like the idea of creepy stuff for flair.

I like being able to choose a spellcasting ability! I don’t want all of them to be charmers and leaders. A high wisdom warlock is…interesting.

Largely seeing this open options/flavor…

Now the downside…at least for blade locks…

Is this going to be too cookie cutter in other ways? There aren’t many hard decisions. I always avoided the hexblade for reasons…

No shield with medium armor (or does ONE include it)?

No heavy pact weapons? Say it isn’t so! I love my dwarf with a fiendish greataxe!!!

Will there be an eldritch smite invocation? Please tell me I missed it somewhere! This feature has led to so much fun for me! Pivotal 20s make people groan and cheer!

I would be really sad if this was not an option!!!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Where are we, kindergarten where I can send you to your room or something? You would not listen anyway, and I do not bother trying

Mod Note:

You should have stopped before making it personal by posting this. Don’t post like that again.

 

[mamba]

OK. My table wants the default style of play presented by the PHB.

Oh, wait. The rest system in the default style of play presented in the PHB is kind of broken and multiple classes don't work well across the entire adventuring day outside of relatively narrow encounter day designs.

if you feel the latter, why insist on the former?

Perhaps we should ask WotC to consider a new edition that modifies, removes, or otherwise updates classes or the rest system to have a better overall design?

I am all for it, get rid of resource recovery during short rests altogether, have them just for healing

 

[mamba]

I think this argument is a bit disingenuous though. The game is collaborative. Often, people complaining that the DM doesn't let them short rest will be the same people complaining that the rest of the group won't agree to take a long rest.

if the group does not let you short rest or long rest, that is on the group, not the game.

The game’s fault is having different classes on different schedules.