Things I miss from 2nd edition

[Piratecat]

Amusingly enough, I find that lots of hit points are great. One PC in my game has 177 hit points at 15th lvl, and it's *easy* to get her down into low numbers, even with stoneskins and endurance spells. Lots of hit points mean that the bad guys can unleash their full power on the PCs, and you don't have to worry as much about "accidentally" killing them.

To get back on topic, the only thing I really miss from 2e are highly customized clerical spell lists, and swords of sharpness.

- Piratecat

 

[Ravellion]

The chances of this happening are pretty slim. You'd have to roll "12" on your hit die fourteen times in a row.

That's one in 1,283,918,464,548,864 - one in more than a *quadrillion*.

The average is more like 14.5 points per level, which comes out to 223... which is still pretty high, but a good deal less than the figure you came up with.

...untill he rages... then it is that high (well 251...but wait for improved rage!)

Rav

 

[dagger]

Having played in a high level 3e campaign, I can attest to the fact that the extra HPs dont really make a differnece, cause all the opponents have them too. Characters still die just as quickly at 17+.

 

[Romotre]

Lots of hit points mean that the bad guys can unleash their full power on the PCs, and you don't have to worry as much about "accidentally" killing them.

- Piratecat

I can relate, I hate that feeling when you, as the DM, screw up and make what was supposed to be a fun encounter turn sour when the remorhaz swallows all but one of the PC's. I hate it when I used to be forced to have the enemies not try as hard as they could, bah, as if they were fighting for their lives or something... but still 100-200 hp is enough without any magic.

and yeah i agree with you sword of sharpness...hehe

 

[Vaxalon]

... I think when you mention the "book," and that others stuff, its a way for you to rationalize lots of HP, is that right?...

Something like that, though I don't really like the word "rationalize", mainly because it's a metaphor. It's *as if* there were a book; that doesn't mean that there actually is one.

A 20th level fighter doesn't die when he falls from 200' up any more than Ace Rimmer does when he jumps out of a plane without a parachute.

 

[fba827]

I have to mimic Piratecat's sentiment here -- I really miss the more diversified spell lists for clerics (different gods allowed no/minor/major access to different types of things); the way it is now clerics of any religion basically have the same spell lists (and powers) with one or two additional spells.

Yes, I rule-0ed it for my campaign so I am not complaining, just stating an answer.

 

[Romotre]

Having played in a high level 3e campaign, I can attest to the fact that the extra HPs dont really make a differnece, cause all the opponents have them too. Characters still die just as quickly at 17+.

yeah sure, when you pit them against other 17+ level parties. usuallly though, in my worlds, there aren't many baddies that high just roaming around waiting to kill the PC's. the only parties that high for important plot elements. other challenges are monsters combined with usual (usually hazardous) circumstances. the barb with 250 HP has nothing to fear from 2 gaurds with bows aimed at his head. sure if you went exchanging hits with 17th fighters you'd die pretty quick. but this is for the high lvl greater raging barb with lots of HP we're talkng about. supposing that enemy he's tanking turns on the rogue with d6 HP and maybe +1 con? then he's meat. all i'm saying is that is 2nd edition, the fighter types would get ahead in the HP race then things would settle down, and the smaller guys that can barely hit the tanks could actually maybe an impact

 

[Piratecat]

A 20th level fighter doesn't die when he falls from 200' up any more than Ace Rimmer does when he jumps out of a plane without a parachute.

With average damage of 70 pts, I hope he makes his DC 15 fortitude save vs massive damage....

Romotre, when you are 17th lvl, "two guards with bows" aren't opponents. They aren't credible threats to any 17th lvl PC, never mind the barbarian. Mind you, I'm not saying that you shouldn't miss 2e hit points.... but I don't think that you're considering all the potential threats to high lvl PCs. All I can speak for is myself, but I have a high level group and it hasn't been a problem. I don't have a lot of high lvl NPCs running around, either. *shrug* In a recent game, the PCs were defeated by foes averaging 4-5 levels less than they were.

 

[Romotre]

A 20th level fighter doesn't die when he falls from 200' up any more than Ace Rimmer does when he jumps out of a plane without a parachute.

ok a character reaches terminal velocity (20d6 max falling damage) and takes an average of 3.5*20=70 damage. the characters we have been discussing could jump off a cliff of any distance and still be alive to do it 2-3 more times. i dunno about that, seems a little off.

 

[Romotre]

yes the gaurds with bows aren't enemies, it was an example. i just that i've never really liked HP has a health system (health levels are better, IMO) and 3e has just made it worse for me. its just how i feel.