Things I miss from 2nd edition

[Ravellion]

all i'm saying is that is 2nd edition, the fighter types would get ahead in the HP race then things would settle down, and the smaller guys that can barely hit the tanks could actually maybe an impact

And what I'm saying is that now they can, but they couldn't in 2nd. One attack per minute for a 20th level cleric of Torm *tsss*

Rav

 

[Romotre]

I have to mimic Piratecat's sentiment here -- I really miss the more diversified spell lists for clerics (different gods allowed no/minor/major access to different types of things); the way it is now clerics of any religion basically have the same spell lists (and powers) with one or two additional spells.

"In the name of simplification, I grant all clerics EQUAL spells to choose from!"
-Coalition for the Equal Rights of Clerics of all Religions in 3e

 

[Metus]

Planescape.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

ok a character reaches terminal velocity (20d6 max falling damage) and takes an average of 3.5*20=70 damage. the characters we have been discussing could jump off a cliff of any distance and still be alive to do it 2-3 more times. i dunno about that, seems a little off.

But if you take HPs as an abstract system, then there is just various luck factors meaning that the character didn't get hurt much by it.
Ie, they fell through a tree, etc.

OTOH, check out the Star Wars D20 rules for Wound Points - pg 139 "When your wound points drop to 0, you're unconscious. You can't take any action until you regain 1 or more woiund points. You must immediately make a fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10. If the save fails, the character dies. If the save succeeds, the cahracter remains unconscious and dying.
" A dying character must make a Fortitude save every hour (DC 10 + 1 per hour of unconsciousness). .....If the check succeeds by 10 or more, or if the roll is a natural 20, the character stabalizes"

So, under this system, the planet you are on blows up, and you take 10,000 wound points damage. If you make a Fort save at DC10 you are unconscious and floating in space for an hour, when you must try again. I feel for the large portion of the Alderan population who survived for one or more hours after the destruction of their planet. In a SW game I ran with these rules in place a 2nd level character in the game needed a roll of 2 or higher to make the first for save.

Duncan

 

[Victim]

2e characters, especially fighter types, had less HP than their 3e counterparts.

However, I've found that most opponents also do considerably more damage, thus making the change about the same most of the time. The lowly orc does 1d12+3, while it would do considerably less in 2e, 1d10 for a 2-handed weapon and no bonus. Mid level fighters are putting out more points per attack than before. Monsters get lots more attacks and do more damage per attack.

Those HP are quite necessary.

Finally, characters with good hp in 2e were still over the top in most matters, so the fact that 3e characters are even more so doesn't matter much. Now you can off the cliff twice, instead of once, and still walk away and kill 2 dozen orcs without breaking a sweat.

 

[Romotre]

yes i agree. most of the damage in 3e is scaled. most is not all however (really, its not).

 

[dagger]

HPs for monsters is also higher in 3e . A ancient gold wyrm has over 600 hps.

 

[Corinth]

It's not like I'm new to this; I've thwopped orcs with my +1 sword (as it were) for 20 years now. I still don't understand the nostalgia; I hated the previous two editions of the rules, and I am not at all amused by their reincarnation in the form of Hackmaster.

Uncle Corinth doesn't get it.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have to mimic Piratecat's sentiment here -- I really miss the more diversified spell lists for clerics (different gods allowed no/minor/major access to different types of things); the way it is now clerics of any religion basically have the same spell lists (and powers) with one or two additional spells.

Yes, I rule-0ed it for my campaign so I am not complaining, just stating an answer.

I agree with the lament about less deity-specific spell lists, but using domains should make it easy to whip up such lists. The only downside to such a system is that you always seem to find out that the party's cleric is in actuality a priest of a war god with no healing spells just when it matters most, like when everybody is down to single-digit hit points and the balor walks into the room.

That's when a more inclusive spell list and spontaneous casting really shine.

But, I find the granted powers of the domains to be interesting, without being unbalancing, and they help further differentiate between religions, or even between different sects of a single religion. Prestige classes also help greatly in regards to differentiation.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It's not like I'm new to this; I've thwopped orcs with my +1 sword (as it were) for 20 years now. I still don't understand the nostalgia; I hated the previous two editions of the rules, and I am not at all amused by their reincarnation in the form of Hackmaster.

Uncle Corinth doesn't get it.

Aww, HackMaster is a great read, and is a valauble resource for just about any fantasy RPG, with all its charts and lists. I like HackMaster most of all as a mine of bits 'n' pieces for 3e.