Things that you would like to see change/go away?

[Lanefan]

What would I like to see Go Away? (if the rumours hold up, some of this might even happen!)

- Sorcerors. Blend them in with Wizards to make all wizards spontaneously cast.
- Spell pre-memorization (walks away hand-in-hand with above)
- Barbarians. Blend the class in with Fighter, and use the word Barbarian to mean a sub-race of Human
- About half the skill list for Rogue types, about 3/4 of it for everyone else
- Prestige classes
- Lots of feats that really should be built-in class abilities, leaving the remaining feats as more unique things that serve more to customize your character rather than construct it
- Anything that *temporarily* changes one or more base stats (draining attacks, boost items, etc.) - anything that changes a base stat should be permanent (and thus rare) to cut down on all the paperwork required every time a stat changes
- Strictly-turn-based combat, replaced with something more fluid (currently, for example, movement consists of standing in one place until your initiative comes up, then suddenly being somewhere else...ridiculous)
- Paladins of any alignments other than extreme good and extreme evil (though I could be talked into extreme law and extreme chaos as well, I think)
- Monsters as PCs other than as a house rule
- Outsiders as PCs
- Half-anythings as PCs except Half-Elves and Half-Orcs
- Cone and sphere effect spells not being cones or spheres (draw a circle on the battle-map instead of having the area of effect always conform to squares)
- PC magic item creation as an assumed regular occurrence
- Class-dipping
- Wealth-by-level guidelines
- Different-level characters in the same party getting different expereience point amounts for the same encounter

There needs to be a separate thread, perhaps, for "things you would like to see return from earlier editions, or be brought in from other systems".

Lanefan

 

[TheArcane]

I would like to see the following go away:

- Alignment as a mechanic, except for extremes of good/evil such as celestials and demons/devils.
- Prestige classes, or at least they should be toned down a lot. They got blown out of all proportions, with ~10 new prestige classes in every single book!
- CR/ECL system. I find it entirely inaccurate and very difficult to actually match a proper encounter to a party.
- The monk. I absolutely love the class, but frankly it should appear in an oriental supplement and not as a core class.

Maybe I'll come up with more stuff later. 3.5e doesn't really bother me all that much.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I want the rules explained for seeing at night. If someone is carrying a torch and is 100 feet away, perhaps he cannot see me, but I can see him. Or, at least, if I watch, I can see that something is carrying a torch and moving at the same time.

I just want the rules (pardon the pun) clarified.

Dave

 

[Sadrik]

Reduced maybe. Brought into line with other magical offensive options (either by scaling them down or the other options up) definitely. Removed, I'm not so sure.

Well, here is an example of a spell that I would alter: Feeblemind! That spell really screws up people. It should be INT damage not -you are reduced to 3. It takes nothing into account like I have a 47 INT if it were 2d6 INT damage it would still be devastating. Also rather than giving a wizard -4 (I think it is) to save you could make them lose 3d6 INT instead. Also, as stat damage it can be healed. This is an example of an effect that should be mitigated.
Basically, 9th level spells like power word kill are fine by me. But 4th level spells like phantasmal killer are not ok with me (even with its make two saves- if you fail both you die.) So nearly, all save or die or disable or make useless spells should be gone or mitigated except at the most upper reaches and even then I dont like them.
My experiences at conventions playing in high level games in 3ed has been: a volley of first round save or die effects. My ultra powerful ranger/rogue/assassin/arcane archer, rolled a "1". Oops I Imploded. After the fight- true res -50k. Next fight oops I rolled a "1" again I am destroyed. After fight- true res -50k. It was silly. Please remove save or die, even at high level. None of these monsters survived more than 1-3 rounds so by wasting their precious 1 action on essentially forcing us to rest and lose 50k they didnt accomplish much for the monster. Other monster features could make them more interesting and in turn the flow of the game more interesting.

This would result in something close to a classless system, which is unlikely in D&D.

No your class is the most important part of this. Turn undead is a talent only available as a cleric. Sneak attack is a talent only available as a rogue. Basically, assign all of the class features spells and combat feats as a talent that you can select from a succinct group of abilities assigned to your class, of course there can be cross over. For example: power attack can be a fighter and a paladin ability.

Or better yet, simply do away with the silly monolithic divides and simply have magic be magic, with ability score and other elements decided on a class by class basis.

Well, that would be the best solution, however I think that is not something that they would do. It would move the cleric into obscurity. Not bad in my opinion but the cleric is a sacred cow that I think that they obviously cannot touch.

I think everyone should get more skill points, but I'm not sure about everyone getting the same number. Certain classes are skill focused as part of their nature, and should probably recieve more.

Getting bonus skill points as a class feature as in 3.5 is not a very good mechanic. First it assumes one thing- at first level there are simply better skilled people than others (rogue vs. fighter). I think this is patently false because because a lord knight (fighter) should absolutely know a lot of stuff. A street thug (rogue) should absolutely not know a lot of stuff. The current system chocks this up to the difference in the modifiers of INT but it is not enough. Either give more weight to INT while selecting skills at first or give everyone the same amount of skills then modify by INT. I prefer the latter of the two.

 

[Merlion]

Well, here is an example of a spell that I would alter: Feeblemind! That spell really screws up people. It should be INT damage not -you are reduced to 3. It takes nothing into account like I have a 47 INT if it were 2d6 INT damage it would still be devastating. Also rather than giving a wizard -4 (I think it is) to save you could make them lose 3d6 INT instead. Also, as stat damage it can be healed. This is an example of an effect that should be mitigated

Feeblemind as Int AND Wis damage sounds good to me, but more than 2d6.

My experiences at conventions playing in high level games in 3ed has been: a volley of first round save or die effects. My ultra powerful ranger/rogue/assassin/arcane archer, rolled a "1". Oops I Imploded. After the fight- true res -50k. Next fight oops I rolled a "1" again I am destroyed. After fight- true res -50k. It was silly. Please remove save or die, even at high level. None of these monsters survived more than 1-3 rounds so by wasting their precious 1 action on essentially forcing us to rest and lose 50k they didnt accomplish much for the monster. Other monster features could make them more interesting and in turn the flow of the game more interesting.

I think there are ways to fix and improve this without removing the effects. Death spells are a part of fantasy, and prevent combat from always being a HP damage race.

No your class is the most important part of this. Turn undead is a talent only available as a cleric. Sneak attack is a talent only available as a rogue. Basically, assign all of the class features spells and combat feats as a talent that you can select from a succinct group of abilities assigned to your class

So basically like now. But with more choices, like the Monk has at some levels.

I disagree about spells tho. Spells should simply be there.

For example: power attack can be a fighter and a paladin ability.

Power Attack should be an action like Disarm that anyone can perform.

Well, that would be the best solution, however I think that is not something that they would do. It would move the cleric into obscurity. Not bad in my opinion but the cleric is a sacred cow that I think that they obviously cannot touch.

They could, but they wont.

The Cleric at least needs to be made balanced however

Getting bonus skill points as a class feature as in 3.5 is not a very good mechanic. First it assumes one thing- at first level there are simply better skilled people than others (rogue vs. fighter). I think this is patently false because because a lord knight (fighter) should absolutely know a lot of stuff. A street thug (rogue) should absolutely not know a lot of stuff. The current system chocks this up to the difference in the modifiers of INT but it is not enough. Either give more weight to INT while selecting skills at first or give everyone the same amount of skills then modify by INT. I prefer the latter of the two.

Its a matter of focus. Some classes are focused on skills, some arent. Thats fine with me, but i dont think any class should get only 2+ Int.

 

[Mercule]

For myself I'd like to see DR revisited. I find it counter-intuituve that for most of the outsiders their DR is effective against everybody except their greatest enemies. ... Huh? What's the point of an Angel/Archon having DR/Evil? Who is he going to be fighting that isn't evil?

I see what you're saying. Look at it more this way: The fiend has DR x/-, but the true radience of good is so anathema that it will overwhelm the fiend, anyway. Now, if only truly blessed weapons would be rare enough and feel appropriate.

Energy drain should be 2 con damage

Ooo. I likey. I still want it to be a bit different from simple con damage, though. Maybe 1 con, str, dex damage. Dunno, but it's the right direction.

Other things I'd like to see:

Kill the paladin. Dead, dead, dead. At least as a base class. As soon as PrCs were introduced, the paladin had no reason to exist as a base class. Better yet, make good multiclassing rules that allow for a multiclass cleric/fighter to be worthwhile and fill the niche of the paladin.

Not all clerics should be martial. Priests of Aphrodite are more likely to be nekkid than don armor. Some interesting deities are practically pacifistic or at least unlikely to wear armor or bash a skull in. Balance clerics as casters, first. If someone wants to play a divine skullcrusher, let them multiclass with fighter or open up paladin to all alignments and make it similar to the current cleric, just weaker with spells. I still think multiclassing would be a better choice, though.

Speaking of clerics, rework domains and spell selection so that the clerics of St. Cuthbert and Wee Jas feel a bit more different.

And, turn undead/divine channelling. First, remove the silly association with positive and negative energy. Wizards deal with cosmic forces. Priests channel their gods. Second, don't give turn undead to everyone. Make it a talent tree type of ability where someone may turn, someone else may smite, a third may get a strength boost. Better yet, dump it and tie it to something like a domain ability.

Assuming prestige classes still exist, make it a design principle that base classes never, ever have an alignment restriction. If the theme demands it, then it should be a PrC. Paladin should be PrC. Bard, druid, monk (if it exists), and barbarian should be open to all alignments.

The ranger should be a martial striker, but not in the way a rogue is. The ranger is a warrior type and should have full BAB and good hit points. In fact, get rid of the barbarian and make rage one branch of the ranger's talent trees. Choose a fighting style, favored enemy, or rage. Then reinclude the scout for the wilderninja -- or not.

Divorce rangers from druids. The archetype is martial, first and foremost. Competency in the wilderness does not equate to reverence of nature. 1E rangers also had arcane spells, which were signifacantly more appropriate. Best to drop all spells and implement a flexible multiclassing system.

Get rid of the barbarian. Even if you forget about the class overlapping with the ranger too much, the barbarian doesn't have a reason to exist. It's a tough fighter that can get mad and has some extra skill points. So make it a fighter option if you want a bruiser. Or a ranger option if you want a survivalist.

Make fighter flexible enough to handle more than one narrow niche. Swashbuckler and martial artist should both be buildable from the fighter class alone. As noted above, so should the crusher barbarian.

Make multiclassing really flexible. Instead of making a bunch of base classes that try to internally balance two archetypes or making PrCs that fudge two classes together, make multiclassing rules that actually do the job of blending two (or more) base classes in a way that isn't outrageously great or lousy. Of course there will always be a way to mess with the system, but check out most of the obvious combination, at least.

Wierd. I didn't know I had so many issues with the classes. A chunk of those are either new or aggrevated in 3E. Interesting.

Get rid of most of the magic item dependency. Sure, items should be a part of the game. It shouldn't be so out of hand that we have a hard time keeping track of our list.

Make buffs and healing less important/significant. That's a huge issue that has at least two current threads devoted to it, so I'll leave it alone.

 

[rounser]

Double weapons, sunrods, tanglefoot bags not in the PHB please. They challenge my suspension of disbelief, and belong in a supplement where they can be ignored.

 

[Jared Rascher]

"Absolute" lore changes. If two monsters have the same role, don't stat them both in the MM, but don't definitively change something that used to be something else.

And recycled names.

 

[rounser]

Oh, and some skill or equivalent that lets PCs identify something about a monster and it's abilities and power level, please. Right now it's just handled by use (or not) of metagame knowledge, and thus the entire issue is handwaved (which is the traditional D&D way to handle it, which isn't really handling it at all).

 

[Moon-Lancer]

keep the druid, and make them cool and nature based. don't make them a cleric with nature domains. They worship nature, not gods.