Thinking about the sub-classes

[Plane Sailing]

It seems likely that each of the classes will have two 'sub classes', the basis of the "builds" that takes the class in one direction or another.

What we know first:

Rogues

Burly Rogue (brutal scoundrel, Str is important)
Trickster Rogue (artful dodger, Cha is important)

Warlords

Inspiring Warlord (inspiring presence, Cha is important)
Tactical Warlord (tactical presence, Int is important)


We have the basis for guessing the following (Races and Classes, playtest blogs)


Fighters

Two handed fighter (called? secondary attribute?)
Sword and board fighter (called? secondary attribute?)

Rangers

Archer ranger (called? secondary attribute?)
Two weapon fighting ranger (called? secondary attribute?)

And these ones? I'm guessing that there will be two sub-classes for each of these, because it is such a neat idea that they wouldn't want to miss the opportunity... but at the time of writing this I've got no idea how I'd break them out! What would you do?

Clerics

Battle cleric (from Paragon Paths excerpt, implies melee focussed cleric)
? spell focused cleric (Paragon Paths excerpt mentions radiant cleric, which might be the obvious direction for a spell focused cleric to go)?


Paladins

?
?

Warlocks

?
?

Wizards

?
?


Cheers

 

[Frostmarrow]

It looks like the sub-classes are arrayed as offensive and defensive types. Take wizard for example. Offensive Wizards get bonuses to to hit rolls and defensive wizards get bonuses to defenses. I.e. Offensive wizards are better with fireball and the defensive wizards are better with fireshield.

 

[Dalamar]

I'm guessing Wizards might get three build options, one for each implement. For Warlocks, it could be the pacts. No idea what abilities those would then use, though.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Well Warlock will probably be pact based. So we may see three builds for them. Wizards are likely to be implement based so again three builds.

Now some suggestions.

Cleric (wis prime)

Crusading Cleric (str based, frontline healer)
Philosophical Cleric (cha based? Ranged blast/healer)

Paladin (Cha prime?)

Wrath Paladin (Str based, big damage)
Guardian Paladin (wis or con based, big ac buffs for allies)

Fighter (Str Prime)

Aggressive Fighter (Dex based, no shield big hitter)
Defensive Fighter (Con based, sword n board)

Ranger (Dex prime)

Hunter Ranger (Wis based, bows nad range stuff)
Stalker Ranger (str based, twf)

 

[Tarril Wolfeye]

Both classes that we know enough of use this:

The Base attribute of the class: Rogue - Dex, Warlord - Str
Secondary attribute for build 1: Rogue - Str, Warlord - Int
Secondary attribute for build 2: Rogue - Cha, Warlord - Cha

These three attributes also cover the three defenses! I think that's important.
Most of the preview characters from XP also try to get a good score in one of each.

So:

Rogue: Dex, Str, Cha
Warlord: Str, Int, Cha

Speculation:
Cleric: Wis, Str, Int
Fighter: Str, Dex, Wis
Paladin: Cha, Str, Dex
Warlock: Cha, Con, Int
Ranger: Dex, Str, Wis
Wizard: Int, Con, Cha

I don't know how Warlock pacts and Wizard implements fit in there...

 

[Frostmarrow]

Orb - Iron Sigil -- thunder, force, defense (con)
Orb - Serpent Eye -- enchantment, beguiling, ensnaring (cha)

Staff - Hidden Flame -- fire, radience (cha)
Staff - Golden Wyvern -- shape and sculpt spells (cha)

Wand - Emerald Frost -- cold, acid (con)
Wand - Stormwalker -- lightning, force (cha)

It looks to me orbs are used by defensive mages, staffs by offensive area effect mages and wands by offensive pinpoint attack mages.

By the way, if this is true my first character will be a stormwalker theurge.

Bam bam zappeti zap!

 

[Cadfan]

We can try to derive some of this by looking at the pregens. If we can figure out which abilities they have are optional (if any), we can guess what sorts of things are covered by build options.

In general: There are some abilities of certain pregens that have +X where X is a logically related stat. There are others where +X is not a logically related stat. Looking at the Warlord preview, we see that he has some encounter abilities that provide a +2 bonus, or, depending on build choice, a +1+stat. This could explain what we see in abilities like the Cleric's Lance of Faith.

Warlock: The Fey Pact and the Shadow Step ability are both the sorts of things that seem like they might not be true of every warlock.

Paladin: The only thing I can come up with here is the options for the Channel Divinity power. Maybe Paladins of different types have different Channel Divinity options.

Cleric: Channel Divinity again? Maybe he is a Cha based cleric, so he gets the Luck based Channel Divinity option, and maybe that's why a lot of his ranged powers grant +2, which is 1+ his Cha bonus, a la the Warlord powers we've seen?

Fighter: Combat Superiority could be optional. Maybe there's something different for two handed fighters.

Ranger: I've got nothing. Although I do notice that he has two feats. Why does he have two feats? He's an Eladrin. Maybe this is involved?

Wizard: Arcane Implement Mastery: Wand. This has got to be the optional aspect of his build.

 

[Baka no Hentai]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I had taken the "builds" to be more along the lines of suggestions for how to assign powers and attributes as opposed to actual character choices that defined your abilities and advancement.

For instance, you could be a rogue with high Dex and Str (matching the brawny build) but still take a daily power that is suggested for the trickster rogue (though you would be less effective doing so, assuming you had lower cha than str.)

Is it confirmed that Builds are more than that?

 

[Cadfan]

Baka- there is some terminology confusion. From the WOTC preview,

Build Options: Inspiring warlord, tactical warlord

Commanding Presence
Choose one of the following two benefits.

Inspiring Presence: When an ally who can see you spends an action point to take an extra action, that ally also regains lost hit points equal to one-half your level + your Charisma modifier.

Tactical Presence: When an ally you can see spends an action point to make an extra attack, the ally gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to one-half your Intelligence modifier.

The choice you make also provides bonuses to certain warlord powers. Individual powers detail the effects (if any) your Commanding Presence selection has on them.

Creating a Warlord

The two warlord builds are inspiring warlord and tactical warlord. Some warlords lean more on their Charisma, while others rely on Intelligence, but Strength is important to every warlord.
This section then proceeds to detail the Inspiring Warlord and the Tactical Warlord, including sample builds.

You see where the confusion comes in? Technically we are talking about the choices available under Commanding Presence, but those map 1 to 1 with the two "build options" given. It seems like the term "build" is being used to refer to which choice you make for your Commanding Presence, as well as for the sample "builds" given.

Both uses of the word "build" make sense, but I wish they had used a different word because this question comes up an awful lot.

 

[Mentat55]

I think most of the discussion here is not on the build, but rather the class features that are linked to another ability score -- for the rogue, these were the two choices of Rogue Tactics, for the warlord, the two choices for Commanding Presence. There is a (good) assumption that the other classes have similar abilities, which specify your character's "style" and reliance on a secondary ability score.

I think builds are just suggestions on how to use those ability score-related class features to gain an advantage, by taking powers that benefit from that ability score/class feature, and skills that use that ability score or fit the theme.

EDIT: Cadfan has the right of it, and even includes relevant quotes. Beaten to the punch!