Those Neutrals Make Me So Mad!

[roguerouge]

Some people in the POW thread argued that LGs and CNs just can't get along, long-term. It's so bad between these two world views that it's not uncommon to house rule out one or both of these alignments from player access. The LG vs. CN alignment fight is as old as alignment itself. One might summarize it, humorously, in this fashion:

CN: "Stop pushing your alignment on me! I'll do what I want!"
LG: "ME? You're the one who keeps acting without thinking about anybody else's feelings!"
CN: "Fascist!"
LG: "Solipsist!"

Do the other 4 "typical PC" alignments have ritual squabbles like this one? Of the other four (N, NG, LN, CG) which typically squabble, in your experience, and with whom? (Including LGs and CNs, too, I suppose.)

 

[pbd]

I would think that LG and CE would be the least able to get along.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I would think that LG and CE would be the least able to get along.

A CE guy is less likely to be self-righteous about it. He probably knows he's a bad dude on some level and has made his peace with it. He might even admire the LG guy, even though it's a set of standards he could never live up to himself.

 

[Will]

In my games, I usually declare that people must be within one step of NG: LG, CG, LN, TN, NG.

It cuts out the majority of engrained conflicts alignments can pose; in my experience, while the LG and CG characters may argue about methods, they are vastly more likely to get along than, say, LG and LE.

Which is not to say you couldn't have a workable party with LG/LE working together, but I just don't find the chance worth my time.

 

[kenobi65]

Some people in the POW thread argued that LGs and CNs just can't get along, long-term. It's so bad between these two world views that it's not uncommon to house rule out one or both of these alignments from player access. The LG vs. CN alignment fight is as old as alignment itself. One might summarize it, humorously, in this fashion:

CN: "Stop pushing your alignment on me! I'll do what I want!"
LG: "ME? You're the one who keeps acting without thinking about anybody else's feelings!"
CN: "Fascist!"
LG: "Solipsist!"

I guess I'm just lucky. In 26 years of gaming, in a number of different groups in different places, I've *never* heard or seen anything like this, and never heard of a group that restricted alignment (other than not allowing evil PCs).

 

[tzor]

One of the problems of the alignment system is that one really needs a third axis in order to fully define relations between sample members of one alignment and the other. That third axis is extrovert and introvert.

You can have, for example a LN introvert who believes in the rule of law and of discipline for himself but does not impose it on others.

You can also have a LN extrovert that wants to impose law and disipline on everyone.

LNi/LNe aside there are reasons why extreeme alignment opposites don't get along too well. Mild opposites on the other hand sometimes get along well (oopsites attract some say). A person who is generally lawfull may get along with a person who is generally chaotic. The best classic example was the "Odd Couple." One was generally organized and the other was a slob.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

One of the problems of the alignment system is that one really needs a third axis in order to fully define relations between sample members of one alignment and the other. That third axis is extrovert and introvert.

You can have, for example a LN introvert who believes in the rule of law and of discipline for himself but does not impose it on others.

You can also have a LN extrovert that wants to impose law and disipline on everyone.

while I would find the labels you chose confusing (since they already have personality trait meanings) I agree with the importance of the distinction.

There are definitely a lot of different ways for people to relate to their own C-L alignment. Personal codes vs imposing it on others, and also whether they consider law and chaos the best way to achieve their goals or if they are the goals in and of themselves. That is, is a LG character using Law as the way he accomplishes his Good goals (and can be put aside on the rare occasions he agrees it's not the best way right then), or is Law a goal in and of itself that could sometimes conflict with his Good goals?

 

[Will]

Yeah, I definitely think there's a huge difference between a Chaotic person who traipses along and reacts as the mood strikes and a Chaotic person who is fighting hard for liberty and freedom from oppressive government.

 

[pbd]

A CE guy is less likely to be self-righteous about it. He probably knows he's a bad dude on some level and has made his peace with it. He might even admire the LG guy, even though it's a set of standards he could never live up to himself.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Why is the CN guy necessarily self righteous? He may not care how others act.

The LG guy would probably have big problem the first time the CE guy stabbed someone for looking at him funny, even he does know he's a "bad dude".

 

[Clavis]

In my games, I usually declare that people must be within one step of NG: LG, CG, LN, TN, NG.

It cuts out the majority of engrained conflicts alignments can pose; in my experience, while the LG and CG characters may argue about methods, they are vastly more likely to get along than, say, LG and LE.

Which is not to say you couldn't have a workable party with LG/LE working together, but I just don't find the chance worth my time.

Funny, usually I warn new players against playing LG characters (especially Paladins), because they will not get along with the existing, generally amoral and Chaotic, PCs.