Thoughts about Magic and Combat

[sfedi]

I'm amazed as how the rules, all RPG rules for that matter, makes Magic do unbelievable stuff. Things that couldn't be possible in the real world.
Yet, ALL of the RPGs I know of (except maybe, Rolemaster) makes combat MUCH less deadlier than it is in the real world (poisons included).

Real combatants can kill ANYONE in less than 2 seconds, given a surprise situation.

Your thoughts?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

What's more fun, the tension of a battle's ebb and flow as one side gains the ascendancy and desperate victory or,

Umm.. you hit the bad guy's and.. um... they all die.

I believe "fun" is the answer.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

PS: I suppose deadly combat systems are still fun as you try everything possible to avoid combat. When combat does happen, you know it's going to be bad - and thus there is good tension here to see if your character survives.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, I'm not sure why this is in Rules, but I do think that games are designed to be fun, and dying in two seconds is generally not fun. Even in horror games, it's much more entertaining to give the players a false sense of hope by killing them slowly.

 

[Telperion]

I'm amazed as how the rules, all RPG rules for that matter, makes Magic do unbelievable stuff. Things that couldn't be possible in the real world.
Yet, ALL of the RPGs I know of (except maybe, Rolemaster) makes combat MUCH less deadlier than it is in the real world (poisons included).

Real combatants can kill ANYONE in less than 2 seconds, given a surprise situation.

Your thoughts?

I'll have to disagree with you on RoleMaster as well. The version that played required a critical hit to even slow anyone down. Even if you got an E-critical it was far from certain to do any serious damage. Hitpoints wise I think RoleMaster is one of the less deadly systems, although the numerous critical tables to add lots of interesting twists and surprises into combat.

Seriously speaking: I think it is more about having fun than simulating real life to the extreme. If you want to do that then might I suggest Harm? I hear that the most common cause of death in that game is death by infection after you have been nicked by knife or something like that. There's realism for you .

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

In general, roleplaying games are intended to "simulate" a world in the spirit of heroic literature, mythology, cinema, etc. Not reality.

Surviving a crossbow bolt in the back, a dragon's breathe, a 200' fall off a cliff into a river, and so on is not strange in that context.

Furthermore, most RPGs indulge the players by increasing survivability so that they can reap the pleasures of playing the same PC over and over again, if the player so chooses. It is a modest change to make the game more fun.

 

[Thanee]

Your thoughts?

There are actually plenty game systems, that make combat between mundane persons that deadly.

Shadowrun, for example. Unless you have amazing defenses, you are simply dead, if someone shoots you from surprise (and even if you have them, your chances are slim).

However, fully realistic combat (try phoenix command (it's a rules set for modern combat, but you'll have trouble to find it, it's pretty old already), if you want really realistic combats, you can even trace the path a bullet takes through the body and what organs are damaged and whatnot there ) takes away from the heroic role of the characters. Therefore usually combat is made less deadly as it should be, because it's more like modeling cinematic combat, than real combat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Shadowrun, for example. Unless you have amazing defenses, you are simply dead, if someone shoots you from surprise (and even if you have them, your chances are slim).

That is not my experience in Shadowrun 1e and 2e. PCs drop unconscious all the time but they are easy to fix. Have not played 3e.

Playing Shadowrun is like D&D where every character has 10 HPs, every attack does d20, Heal is a 2nd level spell, and Fireball & Regenerate are 1st level spells.

 

[Thanee]

That's why every good assassin shoots twice.

First bullet puts them down, second bullet puts them out.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Creeperman]

That is not my experience in Shadowrun 1e and 2e. PCs drop unconscious all the time but they are easy to fix. Have not played 3e.

Playing Shadowrun is like D&D where every character has 10 HPs, every attack does d20, Heal is a 2nd level spell, and Fireball & Regenerate are 1st level spells.

Well, that depends on your GM. My experience with Shadowrun was with a GM who used (abused?) the NPC Threat Pool rules extensively, so any action was generally resolved with a double-fistful of dice.

While this may not have been such a problem against light pistols (assuming decent armor), he also liked using surprise, snipers, the Barrett-121, and called shots in conjunction, resulting in the messiness mentioned by Thanee.

Having said that, PCs are easy to fix... if they are mages or adepts, and someone has a high-force Heal or Treat spell, and that someone has the appropriate fetishes and foci. If the victim is any type of cybered mundane, however, the tests become drastically tougher with the loss of Essence. In that case, the poor PC can look forward to a thirty-day (or more) hospital stay, at a cool 1,000¥ a day, plus surgeries and other treatments. Kind of rough on the old credstick there, chummer, neh?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Yet, ALL of the RPGs I know of (except maybe, Rolemaster) makes combat MUCH less deadlier than it is in the real world

I recommend getting hold of RQ2 if you can then. Two individuals armed with spears and without armour are likely to achieve a fatal would very quickly indeed.