The drow really do hate surface elves. This isn't just "I hate him", but "I hate him to death." They rage-hate elves. You do have to come up with something more interesting to justify an elf being kept alive.
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D&D 5E Thoughts on playing Elf in Out of the Abyss [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter CapnZapp
- Start date
The drow really do hate surface elves. This isn't just "I hate him", but "I hate him to death." They rage-hate elves. You do have to come up with something more interesting to justify an elf being kept alive.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Oh look an elf was here in this slave capturing ambush nice and alone and easy to capture. Lets humiliate and torment him/her at the outpost while waiting for the Menzoberranzan slavers to pick up the slaves. Then the elf can be brought in to be sacrificed with that traitor Sarith.
Elves are considered to be the best sacrifice material to Lolth. (This includes Drow Elves.) They are keeping a Drow Traitor in the form as Sarith as a slave in the compound until the slaves are picked up and brought to Menzobarrenzan were he is going to be sacrificed. Pretty much it's easy to justify them as facing the same fate as Sarith is going to.
Anyway I doubt a drow is going to care about how notable a surface elf is for taking alive. They will target easier ones when they want slaves as they are less likely to be able to cause trouble. If they could get a notable one they would like it. But they are not going to complain about getting easy prey.
aramis erak
Legend
The adventure isn't written for 1st levels... it's playable, but the CR's of the nastiness are high enough that 1st levels are cannon-fodder for an angry Quoggoth.
CapnZapp
Legend
It is written for characters starting at level 1.
And I love how it it a true challenge at that level, with a real gloves-off risk of character permadeath.
But. It's more cunningly crafted than some boring death-dungeon constructed by a DM in antagonism mode. Here's my top 3 reasons why (remember, this entire thread is spoiler-marked):
#1: The characters are level 1. Duh: what I mean by this is that it is never easier to stat up a new characters if your old one dies...
#2: The characters start at a slave outpost. The story is perfect to justify the arrival of more fodder... I mean player characters.
#3: There are plenty of NPCs to soak up hits. There is no reason why your character need to fight that Quaggoth by herself. Just to bring the point across: there is an NPC that is easily manipulated into "violently tearing foes limb from limb and rending their flesh with sharp claws and teeth". That NPC? A Quaggoth on your side!
If you need more help, I can say that if I were a player, I would try to scrounge up enough XP to reach 2nd level before the main breakout attempt. One option is to provoke a fight, assuming your DM is willing to award you Xp if you win. Another option is to make an escape attempt where your real purpose is to accomplish feats that grant XP, without angering your captors so much that they throw you to the spiders. If your DM is heavily into social interaction, you can probably gain XP just by talking. Or perhaps you're a strong handsome warrior and can gain the attention of Asha or one of the elite drow males...
The possibilities are endless... but unlike most D&D starting adventures, you need to do more than slay hapless goblins three at a time to get your adventuring career started!
CapnZapp
Legend
At least, that's what this thread is about, yes.
Nothing wrong with handwaving the reason an Elf is treated more less the same than any other prisoner.
But that's not the subject for this thread. This purpose of this thread isn't to convince me there is no problem, and I didn't start it for you to tell me I don't need to do anything special.
The purpose of this thread is to offer suggestions for those who WANT to uphold the general "Elves killed on sight" trait most descriptions of the Drow race include, without going so far as to make it impossible to play a surface elf.
Those assumptions might be narrow, but for whatever reason if you don't agree, this thread is not for you.
Thank you.
The problem I have here, CapnZapp, is that some are suggesting that drow kill all surface elves on sight, without exception. That's simply not true. Taking surface elves captive is actually part of the lore and setting. Point in fact - in the last few Salvador books, one of the hated surface elves was kept by the drow, tortured, and mind scrambled into a living doll to be used as entertainment by the Matron Mother. Its been several months, and the surface elf in question is still breathing, if mostly insane.
So, when someone says that keeping an elf captive alive is "hand waving?" That's actually a misconception that established lore contradicts. Its not a pleasant experience by any means - torture and abuse are rampant. But it does happen.
So, when someone says that keeping an elf captive alive is "hand waving?" That's actually a misconception that established lore contradicts. Its not a pleasant experience by any means - torture and abuse are rampant. But it does happen.
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CapnZapp
Legend
You still miss my point.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
I'm saying it is discussion-worthy when it happens to the very first elf the player sees, his or own character.
Again, if the party gets captured at level 10, there would be plenty of time to establish in-game that most Elves are put to death, but you're the exception.
I want more than "I know there's only the exception and no rule, but trust me..."
So it's not about rationalizing why the drow keep an elf around.
It's about how to make a properly harsh impression given the fact it's the very first thing that happens.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
I'm saying it is discussion-worthy when it happens to the very first elf the player sees, his or own character.
Again, if the party gets captured at level 10, there would be plenty of time to establish in-game that most Elves are put to death, but you're the exception.
I want more than "I know there's only the exception and no rule, but trust me..."
So it's not about rationalizing why the drow keep an elf around.
It's about how to make a properly harsh impression given the fact it's the very first thing that happens.
I see now. The question is how did the particular PC come up with a way to stay alive, not why are the drow keeping him alive.
So this would depend upon where the elf was taken and what type of personality the PC is playing. A coward might cut his ear tips off to stay alive, but not a brave elf.
1. "I was protecting several elven children with several of my fellow elves. They cut through us. I was wounded but not dead. I begged them not to slay the children. I said I would do anything to prevent it. The female that led them laughed and ordered the drow to hold me and keep my eyes open while she summoned a spider swarm to consume the children as sacrifices to Lolth. After her sickening ritual, she looked into my eyes, said 'This one is broken. Take him. It will be fun to make this one relive this moment for all the years of his life.' That is why I am alive. The priestess wishes to look into my mind to experience what I felt as I watched the elf children I was protecting die."
2. "I was wandering through the forest. I felt something like a sting. I woke up here. The drow have promised a very painful death. I'm not exactly looking forward to it. So any plan put forth to avoid it would be a worthy listen."
3. "I was traveling with a human caravan when the drow attacked. One of their slaver parties. They killed anyone that resisted, took the rest as slaves. I have been kept alive for interrogation. They want me to provide them with the location of elven settlements. They want to know how they are guarded, where they are at, the general strength of the settlement. Who my family is. I won't tell them willingly. I know given time they will extract the information. I don't want to be the cause of more death for my people. There is no reasoning with the drow. I will be kept alive until they acquire sufficient information to plan further raids on my people. After that my fate will be death or worse."
4. "They told me they took me because I'm particularly beautiful. They plan to sell me to a pleasure house. Need I say more about my fate? I need to escape."
5. "I begged for my life. I told them anything they wanted to know. I told them they were superior to my kind. I told them who the most prominent elves in the community were. I told them everything. I debased myself. I gave them my family's treasures. I did everything I could to survive. All I managed to do was end up as a slave. I can't tell anyone what I've done. No one will trust me. I need to come up with a good lie as to why I'm alive."
So this would depend upon where the elf was taken and what type of personality the PC is playing. A coward might cut his ear tips off to stay alive, but not a brave elf.
1. "I was protecting several elven children with several of my fellow elves. They cut through us. I was wounded but not dead. I begged them not to slay the children. I said I would do anything to prevent it. The female that led them laughed and ordered the drow to hold me and keep my eyes open while she summoned a spider swarm to consume the children as sacrifices to Lolth. After her sickening ritual, she looked into my eyes, said 'This one is broken. Take him. It will be fun to make this one relive this moment for all the years of his life.' That is why I am alive. The priestess wishes to look into my mind to experience what I felt as I watched the elf children I was protecting die."
2. "I was wandering through the forest. I felt something like a sting. I woke up here. The drow have promised a very painful death. I'm not exactly looking forward to it. So any plan put forth to avoid it would be a worthy listen."
3. "I was traveling with a human caravan when the drow attacked. One of their slaver parties. They killed anyone that resisted, took the rest as slaves. I have been kept alive for interrogation. They want me to provide them with the location of elven settlements. They want to know how they are guarded, where they are at, the general strength of the settlement. Who my family is. I won't tell them willingly. I know given time they will extract the information. I don't want to be the cause of more death for my people. There is no reasoning with the drow. I will be kept alive until they acquire sufficient information to plan further raids on my people. After that my fate will be death or worse."
4. "They told me they took me because I'm particularly beautiful. They plan to sell me to a pleasure house. Need I say more about my fate? I need to escape."
5. "I begged for my life. I told them anything they wanted to know. I told them they were superior to my kind. I told them who the most prominent elves in the community were. I told them everything. I debased myself. I gave them my family's treasures. I did everything I could to survive. All I managed to do was end up as a slave. I can't tell anyone what I've done. No one will trust me. I need to come up with a good lie as to why I'm alive."
CapnZapp
Legend
That sounds like something Ned Stark could have said...
Great stuff - dark, but great...
Yes, this is exactly what we're talking about here: stuff the module could have included to help elf players and their DMs that want to make a big thing out of it, but still make it work.
I went with the web cocoon idea myself. No complaints from my player. He's playing the human noblewoman* his elf character conned until they can free his main character
*) Quick and dirty version of the NPC Aristocrat class: as Fighter level 1 but downgrade hit dice to d8 and add Persuasion as bonus skill.
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