D&D General Thoughts on Racial Classes?

[FrogReaver]

PCs are atypical, or so I hear. Again, the LotR are the example here, of where people came together literally only because of Gandalf.

So you are saying that a save the world style quest is required for races to come together and start an adventure together in a young world where each separate race is only in a particular location?

In that very limited context I agree that racial class restrictions make sense and the world makes sense with them. Do you agree that they don't make much sense in other settings?

 

[prosfilaes]

In that very limited context I agree that racial class restrictions make sense and the world makes sense with them. Do you agree that they don't make much sense in other settings?

If you assume it makes sense for DMs ban any race they want, no matter how common, and it makes no sense for a DM to ban any race-class combination they want, no matter how absurdly rare, then sure. I don't share that assumption.

 

[FrogReaver]

If you assume it makes sense for DMs ban any race they want, no matter how common, and it makes no sense for a DM to ban any race-class combination they want, no matter how absurdly rare, then sure. I don't share that assumption.

If you aren't even going to respond to what was arguably the more important part of my 3 sentence reply then continuing this is worthless.

 

[prosfilaes]

If you aren't even going to respond to what was arguably the more important part of my 3 sentence reply then continuing this is worthless.

Given that I note you've ignored my explanation why dwarves without wizards would survive just fine and why it doesn't matter anyway, I think the feeling is mutual.

 

[Coroc]

I dont know if you are playing 5e with those restrictions, but I'd sure like to see the write-up of your available classes/archetypes. I'm always trying to de-kitchen-sink-ing my take on the Forgotten realms and I think that would be an interesting way of doing it.

Not the one addressed but here is my take on how I would do FR:

Use the lore a bit to your advantage, elves have withdrawn to evermeet, so that should reduce the elvanisation of adventurers step 1 ban elves, allow halfelves though.
Ban either halflings or gnomes (not both of them), in Greyhawk I allow gnomes in FR I would tend to allow halflings rather.
Dwarves are not so withdrawn, so allow them. I dislike the RAW take on mountain dwarves though, it makes dwarves stronger than humans in the beginning so I would allow only hill dwarves. For me a dwarf is a bag of hitpoints (not meant negatively, I like dwarves), but not an Arnold.
Humans, of course. If you want to play with feats make variant human mandatory not optional.
Stranger stuff: Tieflings, yeah the chances for them to appear are quite high since all the meddling of Asmodeus so well, include them if you want to.
Drow? No, of couse not, drow are monsters.
Halforcs? same.
Lizardmen ah I meant egglaying Draconian aeh Dragonborn? To much Krynn for my take on FR, ban. do not use them as NPCs either.

So, classes (and allowed Combos):

Allow Wizard (Any school) Humans and Halfelves Tiefling, Illusionist for halflings (or gnomes)

Sorc (Dragon and Wildmagic) Human Tiefling(Wildmagic only)

Cleric (reduce your pantheon available as cleric deities to pcs, you can discuss player preference though, just include the players desired deity and leave some other for NPC only) pick something useful for each domain, e.g. Gond, Mystra, Tyr, and some more, I cannot go into detail atm.). Every race except Tiefling

Bard (the PHB options) Human, Halfelf, Tiefling

Warlock Human, Halfelf, Tiefling, Patron Nature and Abyss/Hell, nothing else.

Paladin Human only has to be of Torm (The classic variant)

Ranger Human Halfelf maybe Halfling, pick some nature god for that one.

Fighter every race, but Halfelf EK only

Rogue every race but dwarf, but Assa / AT human Tiefling halfelf only,

Barbarian? Human only, if at all.

Monk Human and Dwarf only, if at all.

Druid human halfelf only, moon and land.

So that one for a rough start, that's the way if you want to restrict to something which does not require shoehorn or constructed explanations for strange combinations

 

[Minigiant]

I totally forgot that one of my home games has a special class that only Small and Tiny races can takethe class:the Pilot.
This is because the player is more or less in a magic "mechsuit". You basically become a slightly larger warforged.

Techincally you could make on for a Meduim character but it raises you size too high and you cannot really adventure. And an Arcane or Angel suit that fits a medium PC costs too much.

 

[Shiroiken]

It was the same logic as paladins must be LG: it was a mechanic to force certain tropes. I had no particular issue with them back in the day, but the classes were far less generic then too (at least in 1E). While I think that they shouldn't be the default in a core book, I have no problem adding or removing restrictions from 5E, based on the campaign. Despite the fact that no one would take it anyway, I've opened the Battlerager to Human and Half-Orc in my Greyhawk campaign. Humans of Celene (an elf dominate nation, where humans are 2nd class citizens) can learn Bladesinging if they're part of the military. I've also limited others, such as the 4 Elements monk to non-humans only, since that type of monk in no ways fits the human standard of monk.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Not the one addressed but here is my take on how I would do FR:

Use the lore a bit to your advantage, elves have withdrawn to evermeet, so that should reduce the elvanisation of adventurers step 1 ban elves, allow halfelves though.
Ban either halflings or gnomes (not both of them), in Greyhawk I allow gnomes in FR I would tend to allow halflings rather.
Dwarves are not so withdrawn, so allow them. I dislike the RAW take on mountain dwarves though, it makes dwarves stronger than humans in the beginning so I would allow only hill dwarves. For me a dwarf is a bag of hitpoints (not meant negatively, I like dwarves), but not an Arnold.
Humans, of course. If you want to play with feats make variant human mandatory not optional.
Stranger stuff: Tieflings, yeah the chances for them to appear are quite high since all the meddling of Asmodeus so well, include them if you want to.
Drow? No, of couse not, drow are monsters.
Halforcs? same.
Lizardmen ah I meant egglaying Draconian aeh Dragonborn? To much Krynn for my take on FR, ban. do not use them as NPCs either.

So, classes (and allowed Combos):

Allow Wizard (Any school) Humans and Halfelves Tiefling, Illusionist for halflings (or gnomes)

Sorc (Dragon and Wildmagic) Human Tiefling(Wildmagic only)

Cleric (reduce your pantheon available as cleric deities to pcs, you can discuss player preference though, just include the players desired deity and leave some other for NPC only) pick something useful for each domain, e.g. Gond, Mystra, Tyr, and some more, I cannot go into detail atm.). Every race except Tiefling

Bard (the PHB options) Human, Halfelf, Tiefling

Warlock Human, Halfelf, Tiefling, Patron Nature and Abyss/Hell, nothing else.

Paladin Human only has to be of Torm (The classic variant)

Ranger Human Halfelf maybe Halfling, pick some nature god for that one.

Fighter every race, but Halfelf EK only

Rogue every race but dwarf, but Assa / AT human Tiefling halfelf only,

Barbarian? Human only, if at all.

Monk Human and Dwarf only, if at all.

Druid human halfelf only, moon and land.

So that one for a rough start, that's the way if you want to restrict to something which does not require shoehorn or constructed explanations for strange combinations

I'm thinking of removing both Tiefling and Dragonborns in my games. As a big fan on the Nentir Vale and 4e, I loved them, but in 5e, I went back to FR and I felt they were tack-on a little bit. Having them as a ''people'' instead of being a rare occurrence is weird so late in the setting development. And I prefer the old take on dragonborn: be from any playable race, be nice to the Draconic pantheon, get reborn as a draconic super soldier!

Want to play a human touched by an infernal taint? You play a human fiend warlock, or you could just say you are a tiefling champion fighter or by roleplaying it, on that point I dont really mind. Maybe I'll do the same with half-elves? I never know what to with elves: I love the idea of having them be rare, but that could be a roleplay/worldbuilding thing without having a restriction at chargen.

And then there's the halfling and gnomes. Those two give me headaches, both of them are mostly in Faerun because they are in the PHB. They kinda are just...there.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm not sure how I feel about racial classes.

I am, however, all in favor of racist classes.

A Dwarven Elf-hater is just par for the course.

 

[wingsandsword]

After the rumor milling about Icewind Dale, I booted up the old game and was a bit disappointed to be reminded of racial limitations for classes. I understand it, and I think it particularly makes sense in a finite setting (FR, I believe is a bad example since the world is so large and races so widespread, but you might expect LotR Dwarves to not be druids, as they barely see plants). I've never liked racial classes as it seemed like unneccessary limitation. A mechanical drawback or benefit should be enough. How many Half-orc Wizards did you see in 3.5? Probably not many, but that doesn't mean zero.

Eliminating arbitrary racial restrictions on classes was one of the very good design choices in 3rd edition. As Icewind Dale was built on the 2e framework, it holds to 2e's arbitrary limits.

Just because a race/class combination is rare, doesn't mean it should be absolutely prohibited by the rules.

Many of the arbitrary restrictions in 1e/2e were built on setting assumptions that many campaign settings didn't share.

I always thought it was silly that Dwarves couldn't be wizards. . .after all, runes are very magical and definitely fitting with the dwarven motif. Elves not being able to be druids was outright absurd, you'd think that the core race most tied to nature could be priests of nature. Why couldn't Half-Elves be paladins, if they're raised among humans and in human culture and mostly-human in biology, what's to stop them from being paladins? I remember WotC advertised the elimination of those arbitrary limits as a major advance in D&D design when 3e was announced, and there was MUCH rejoicing from fans.

A descriptive note in the class and/or race descriptions that certain combinations are very rare, or not optimal should suffice. D&D should give as many options as feasible in the core rules, not hard-code limitations into the rules. Let campaign settings and DM's add new restrictions to fit their campaigns and settings, not the core rules.