D&D General Thoughts on Racial Classes?

[Immoralkickass]

But they will. Anyone who plays a gnome barbarian will probably tell you at length why their character is a gnome barbarian. It's certainly not because they're trying to maximize their power. Barbarian is not characterized as something special to one race, whereas bladesinger is. If it's a tradition that comes from being trained by a select group, then your character should have an explanation for how they ran with that group, especially if it's unlikely.

I'm referring to your logic of "if a player thinks Thogg the Gross would be more powerful as a bladesinger, and tosses out reincarnation as an excuse, no." Sounds like you are judging a player's character based on his intentions. Like i said, why other subclass are not required to go through such scrutiny? If a player thinks Thogg the Gross would be even more powerful as a paladin than a bladesinger, he can do it anyway because there is no fluff restrictions? And why call it an 'excuse'? Its a background reason that makes sense. What is YOUR excuse? That Reincarnate does not exist in your setting? You can't have a high level spell cast on you as a low level smuck?

I don't understand why. Is this just about having more player choices?

Literally the first step in character creation in the PHB is to 'Choose your race'. Don't you think its not very smart to move to the 2nd step where there is a class that says 'Elves only?'

 

[prosfilaes]

If a player thinks Thogg the Gross would be even more powerful as a paladin than a bladesinger, he can do it anyway because there is no fluff restrictions?

There are all sorts of fluff restrictions on paladins, they just don't have the mechanical connection.

What is YOUR excuse? That Reincarnate does not exist in your setting? You can't have a high level spell cast on you as a low level smuck?

You're quite unlikely to have a high-level spell cast on you as a low-level smuck. And being reincarnated from an elf into a half-orc is likely to have huge effects on a character.

You avoided my questions; can my character have a Browning automatic rifle in Golarion? If no, what's your excuse, they exist in the setting. Can I play a kender or tinker gnome in your FR campaign? Again, they exist in the setting.

Literally the first step in character creation in the PHB is to 'Choose your race'. Don't you think its not very smart to move to the 2nd step where there is a class that says 'Elves only?'

I don't understand what you're asking here. It's no big deal for a player to go back and choose a elf if they want to play a bladesinger. In practice, experienced players pick race and class in tandem, or pick the class and then pick the race.

 

[Mecheon]

Flavor's a thing though. Sure, Bladesinger's an elvish tradition, but what if I wanted to be a Siren (From the Ixalan Plane Shift) who's picked up on an art of mixing singing with swordfighting? You're gonna tell me a bird person mythologically known for singing isn't going to be able to pull that off?

FR Bladesingers are an elven tradition. Doesn't mean no one's jury-rigged it to their own devices. Doesn't mean there can't be ol' bitter old Jaemonathal, deep in his cups, who's taught the art to that oddly inspiring kobold he met one day who wants to let their race escape the servitude of dragons as that's a far better cause than all the bloody politics and nonsense those he once called countrymen go on about.

 

[Fenris-77]

I seem to recall something from an official release about a bastard Bladesinging tradition practiced by humans or some such. I think it was 4E though, so I'm light on specifics.

 

[TwoSix]

The distinction between "setting-focused play" and "character-focused play" is a major division between different groups of roleplayers, especially between those who identify as "old-school" and those who play more modern games. Racial classes and racial restrictions are a strong indicator of setting focus as a priority, as they serve to foreground setting tropes and concepts like "dwarves can't use magic" in a way that no amount of DM exposition during play can do. By the same token, those restrictions are a strong negative to those who are character focused, because character concepts built on being exceptions to the standard tropes is such a common aspect for that style of play.

Ultimately, it isn't really a solvable problem; different types of play styles are going to naturally gravitate to character building rules that either reinforce tropes or those that provide freedom to break them.

 

[Fenris-77]

It's funny, I really love OSR play, but have never had even the smallest desire to return to racial limits on character class. I don't like people playing with my blocks before I have a chance to use them.

 

[TwoSix]

It's funny, I really love OSR play, but have never had even the smallest desire to return to racial limits on character class. I don't like people playing with my blocks before I have a chance to use them.

Heh, that's interesting; I find OSR concepts intriguing but generally think they're not well suited to my play style. But I think racial restrictions, especially on magical classes, could be used to build to some really interesting campaign concepts.

A concept I noodled around with a few years ago was restricting each casting class to only one race; only elves could be clerics, only dwarves could be wizards, etc. A lot of interesting concepts came from those restrictions and attempting to justify them in the setting narrative.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's funny, I really love OSR play, but have never had even the smallest desire to return to racial limits on character class. I don't like people playing with my blocks before I have a chance to use them.

OSR play doesn't work without either level limits or something else in their place.

Whether you consider it a bug or a feature of the rules, there were two general precepts within the OSR play:

A. Games were supposed to be humanocentric (provide humans with some slight advantage over demihumans).
B. Racial abilities kicked in at first level and stayed with you.

If you combine those two aspects of the game, you end up with a gameplay riddle; how do you balance all the stuff that deminhumans get?

 

[Fenris-77]

Heh, that's interesting; I find OSR concepts intriguing but generally think they're not well suited to my play style. But I think racial restrictions, especially on magical classes, could be used to build to some really interesting campaign concepts.

A concept I noodled around with a few years ago was restricting each casting class to only one race; only elves could be clerics, only dwarves could be wizards, etc. A lot of interesting concepts came from those restrictions and attempting to justify them in the setting narrative.

I'm actually 100% ok with when it flows from campaign concept, and more specifically, when it is put in place for actual reasons in a specific campaign and/or setting. Then we're talking concept, and concept is my front line priority. I don't like it at all as the default assumption for play for how classes work. If I ask the DM why I can't play a Dwarven Wizard and his response is uh...well, ... uh, because magic and stuff, I'm taking a hard pass.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If I ask the DM why I can't play a Dwarven Wizard and his response is ...

....Scottish Accents offend the weave.