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Thoughts on the rebooted He-Man (Netflix)

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I just watched the He-Man episodes and I really enjoyed them. I didn't expect as much death as happened, and I have to say I expected quite a bit more He-Man in a He-Man series than I got. It IS the first half of the season, though, so I suppose more He-Man is coming.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
It is complicated. Universal owns the franchise, but they don't own the Classic series. Universal can make or license new content, as long as it is based on the toys, the comics and the media they actually own. To do a sequel to the classic series, they need to also license from whoever owns the rights to the Filmation series, because they don't own it. The legal mangle that is the franchise also means that there can't be any series in the future that feature both She-Ra and He-Man. Because these were sold off separately.
That's not really what 'sequel' means though. All a sequel is is something set after the original, which this is. I could write a sequel (I mean I'd probably get sued for copyright infringement, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a sequel).
 

MarkB

Legend
I just watched the He-Man episodes and I really enjoyed them. I didn't expect as much death as happened, and I have to say I expected quite a bit more He-Man in a He-Man series than I got. It IS the first half of the season, though, so I suppose more He-Man is coming.
Well, it's a Masters of the Universe series. He-Man doesn't make the title in this one.
 

ehren37

Adventurer
I overall liked it, despite really disliking Teela's character. I'm never a fan of the "I'm entitled to your secrets" trope (see also Amber in Invincible), and the first thing she does when she meets him in the afterlife (after he died saving the world) is continue berating him. Evil Lyn was awesome though, they even made me like freakin Orko!

Hamil seemed phoning it in as Skeletor though. He was way too similar to Joker, particularly the Skeletor/Evil Lyn dynamic. Would have loved some more Beast Man to see why he was so loyal to Lyn. Maybe he's the Platonic form of the loyal goon?

If Smith really killed Adam the second time he's a moron. There's a lot to explore with learning who Adam is without He-Man, including his desire to appear in his true form rather than the empowered form, etc. People are right to feel lied to though, and a He-Man show with (effectively) no He-Man feels calculated to "own the right" in a cheap move, disregarding what fans of the original may want.
 



GMforPowergamers

Adventurer
It was fun, I like a lot of it. It ISNT really a sequel it is a reimagining (by changing things like orko it changes the old stories) However I had fun.

I would have preferred if they had advertised it as it was "a kevin smith reimagining"
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
That's not really what 'sequel' means though. All a sequel is is something set after the original, which this is. I could write a sequel (I mean I'd probably get sued for copyright infringement, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a sequel).
You and I could do a fanfic or a fan comic, or even a fan-vid sequel and get away with it by virtue of being low profile individuals. But these are big corporations.

Since Universal isn't the owner of the classic series, they can't legally make a derivative work (all sequels are derivative works) of it.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
You and I could do a fanfic or a fan comic, or even a fan-vid sequel and get away with it by virtue of being low profile individuals. But these are big corporations.

Since Universal isn't the owner of the classic series, they can't legally make a derivative work (all sequels are derivative works) of it.
I think we're talking about two entirely different things. Never mind. :)
 

Mallus

Legend
My thoughts?

Kevin Smith saved his most emotionally mature writing for a He-Man sequel because of course he did.

Was not prepared for how poignant this joint was. At all.

Still processing the ending. Not happy about Evil-Lyn backsliding after her breakthrough with Orko. But she can't stay evil, right? Not after Skeletor explicitly stating she wasn't in on his plan.
 
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Henry

Autoexreginated
I overall liked it, despite really disliking Teela's character. I'm never a fan of the "I'm entitled to your secrets" trope (see also Amber in Invincible), and the first thing she does when she meets him in the afterlife (after he died saving the world) is continue berating him. Evil Lyn was awesome though, they even made me like freakin Orko!
I can see it, though. She loved Adam, perhaps not intimately, but almost a brother, if nothing else, and it’s one thing to keep a secret, but to find out that basically everyone but you and the FREAKIN’ KING knew, it would hurt - she was complaining about the lying the whole time, but the seeming lack of trust was what hurt her the deepest. In my experience it’s people you love the most that you hold some of the deepest grudges against. So when she finds out he still exists, she‘s both relieved and passed off the same time. If it were me, I’d have had her overjoyed to see him, and THEN pissed off at him, but they made a different choice.

overall, I did like the series, and am looking forward to the rest.
 

My thoughts?

Kevin Smith saved his most emotionally mature writing for a He-Man sequel because of course he did.

Was not prepared for how poignant this joint was. At all.

Still processing the ending. Not happy about Evil-Lyn backsliding after her breakthrough with Orko. But she can't stay evil, right? Not after Skeletor explicitly stating she wasn't in on his plan.
I am not sure that she isn't just going along for now because she can better interfere from the inside. But I dunno.

I have practically no memories of He-Man, probably because it wasn't a show I would watch with any regularity.
I expected the show to be a bit more about He-Man than it was, though, and I kinda felt the conflicts resulting from Adam's death and reveal as He-Man a bit difficult to relate to. And those mother-board worshipers just feel a bit too silly for me.

But I guess the real problem is that I enjoyed Netflix' She-Ra way more than I ever expected and this isn't that.
Though I'll probably keep looking into it. There is overall just something about these techno-fantasy settings that I like. Maybe that's just the game master / role-player instinct in me. My first RPG was Shadowrun, after all.
 

Janx

Hero
I'm about 3 episodes in. I like it.

They went a lot further with the fact that these are people fighting and actually hurt or kill people.

Is this marketed toward kids? Let's think about that seriously for a minute, because I suspect the guy crying on page 1 doesn't get how kids work.

Kids do not want crap written for their age group. It sucks. They want stuff the older people around them are watching (well, not 60 minutes). It's why He-Man was successful the first time. it was ballsbig manly and creepy and scary. You don't think little kids now aren't sneaking peaks at The Walking Dead and playing Zombies and Carls?

So it is with this. Kids are gonna eat this up BECAUSE it's taboo and above their parent's allowed threshold.

And because somebody I ran into whined about He-Man not being in the show and claiming it's called "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe", well, that's not the actual title. He-Man's not in the title. Killing him off for a bit was a good move. That took some balls. Which should be the point in a show about muscle-bound warriors.
 

ehren37

Adventurer
I can see it, though. She loved Adam, perhaps not intimately, but almost a brother, if nothing else, and it’s one thing to keep a secret, but to find out that basically everyone but you and the FREAKIN’ KING knew, it would hurt - she was complaining about the lying the whole time, but the seeming lack of trust was what hurt her the deepest. In my experience it’s people you love the most that you hold some of the deepest grudges against. So when she finds out he still exists, she‘s both relieved and passed off the same time. If it were me, I’d have had her overjoyed to see him, and THEN pissed off at him, but they made a different choice.
Playing off He-Man's gay subtext, it reads more like a closeted man's friend being pissed she wasn't in the know. Which, OK, but the guy died saving the universe. Then gave up heaven trying to help again. Get over yourself! Moreover, any time anyone tried to talk about it, or come clean about other secrets, she acted like a tool. Sorry Teela, you suck. Hopefully she gets better in the back half.

To keep it more positive, I loved the addition of Andra. MOTU needs more POC and women, and her positivity was a welcome ray of light. Normally new characters can feel like Poochie, but she accentuated the story rather than taking over. And she allowed some goofy, old-style MOTU action flashbacks.
 

MarkB

Legend
I can see it, though. She loved Adam, perhaps not intimately, but almost a brother, if nothing else, and it’s one thing to keep a secret, but to find out that basically everyone but you and the FREAKIN’ KING knew, it would hurt - she was complaining about the lying the whole time, but the seeming lack of trust was what hurt her the deepest. In my experience it’s people you love the most that you hold some of the deepest grudges against. So when she finds out he still exists, she‘s both relieved and passed off the same time. If it were me, I’d have had her overjoyed to see him, and THEN pissed off at him, but they made a different choice.

overall, I did like the series, and am looking forward to the rest.
I felt like the series did a good job of laying out (without actually stating) why Adam would do it - basically he sees himself as Adam rather than He-Man, and wanted Teela to love and respect him as Adam, not just because he was He-Man. It's basically the Clark Kent / Superman / Lois dynamic from the 70s/80s movies.
 

So I just binge watched it. As kids' cartoons go, it was pretty damn decent. It was fun to spot all the toy design I remember from my childhood. I really liked Teela's badass new look, and Sarah Michelle Gellar did great job. Lena Headey's Evil-Lyn was the true star though and her and Beast Man teaming up with the heroes was really interesting.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Nevermind my bad.
 

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"Review bombing" isn't a pejorative term. If someone watched the show and didn't like it, their 1 negative review isn't less valid because of the 10,000 people who gave it negative reviews, sight unseen, because half a dozen YouTube channels that receive funding from right-wing think tanks told them to.
The Wikipedia definition seems to have a negative aspect to it, seems like a pejorative to me. It certainly isn't a term with positive connotations is it? Why would you assume that if there are 10,001 negative reviews that one is legitimate and the rest are not.
To try and give a an analogy, if someone bought a new edition of D&D, expecting a dungeon based fantasy game, and the rules turned out to be those of Call of Cthulhu, you can understand that person being unhappy. Even more so if they voiced concerns earlier that the rules would be those of CoC and WoTC had categorically assured them that they were not.
This is what has happened with MotU. A lot of He-Man fans are not happy, no need to conjure scary right wing bogey men.
Personally I never likes the over moralising He-Man when I was a kid, Evil-Lyn on the other hand...
 

DammitVictor

Druid of the Invisible Hand
Why would you assume that if there are 10,001 negative reviews that one is legitimate and the rest are not.

I would assume that at least hundreds of them were legitimate. That's why review bombing is such a crappy, dishonest way of making a point-- it destroys information, making it harder for people to draw their own conclusions.

If a person, or a group of people, have to resort to such tactics to make their point... they don't have a valid point. They are arguing in bad faith, they are deliberately making the world a worse place to live in, etc. etc. etc. And that is obviously what is happening here.

If you watched the show, and you didn't like it, and you gave it one negative review per review website you contribute to... then you're not review bombing and the people complaining about review bombing are not complaining about you. The only thing you're accomplishing, by defending the indefensible, is lending your credibility to garbage and letting it be thrown away with them.


To try and give a an analogy, if someone bought a new edition of D&D, expecting a dungeon based fantasy game, and the rules turned out to be those of Call of Cthulhu, you can understand that person being unhappy. Even more so if they voiced concerns earlier that the rules would be those of CoC and WoTC had categorically assured them that they were not.

Sure, and when people are actually doing that they're not getting dragged through the mud.

To continue your use of the analogy... imagine that the game is called Call of Cthulhu, but most of the adventures are about Nyarlathotep. Now, Nyarlathotep has been part of Call of Cthulhu since the very beginning and every old-school fan of Call of Cthulhu... well, they just love Nyarlathotep and they always have. Some people are complaining about the fact that Cthulhu isn't as important as Nyarlathotep in the adventure, that Cthulhu has been sidelined to make way for Nyarlathotep. Some people are complaining that the new writers are writing Nyarlathotep wrong, robbing him of the... indescribable menace that they loved about him. Some people are complaining that the new artists are drawing Nyarlathotep in a way they don't find as alluring as the old Nyarlathotep.

You're saying those people have a point, and I'm happily agreeing with you.


This is what has happened with MotU. A lot of He-Man fans are not happy, no need to conjure scary right wing bogey men.
Personally I never likes the over moralising He-Man when I was a kid, Evil-Lyn on the other hand...

Now. A lot more people, far more people than the group we just described... are saying that the new Nyarlathotep isn't even a Great Old One at all. He's an Elder God, who's been made an Elder God as part of a vast Elder God conspiracy to corrupt our youth, pander to people who like Elder Gods et cetera. They're using hostile, politicized language about Elder Gods to describe Nyarlathotep, and to describe how even Cthulhu-- when he's around at all-- isn't a real Great Old One anymore, to appease an audience- described in slurs-- that can never be real Great Old Ones and are trying to destroy all evidence of the Great Old Ones.

You're... simultaneously... arguing both that those people don't exist and that those people have a point. You're saying you're not with those people, but you're also claiming that any and all attacks against those people are attacks against you.

I'm not the one conjuring scary right-wing boogeymen. And, for that matter, neither are you.

You're just the Material component. For 25 gold piece, those people will have as many people like you as they need for the duration of this campaign.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
The Wikipedia definition seems to have a negative aspect to it, seems like a pejorative to me. It certainly isn't a term with positive connotations is it?
It's not pejorative (it can't be), and it also is a thing which happens, often (but not always) organized by some community or website. Denying that review bombing even exists is ... new. I mean, you yourself cited the wikipedia entry on it, so you know what it is, and that very article cites dozens of famous examples. Rotten Tomatoes itself acknowledges it. Your position on this issue may be unique.
 

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